O'Connell: Someone has no interest in having an independent justice system in Kosovo

In the interview for KosovoPress, the English diplomat, in addition to Kosovo-Serbia dialogue, also talks about the tax, the current political situation in the country, the possibility of holding elections, and many other topics. As always, O'Connell orders citizens to know their vote is valid, broadcasts the Klan Kosova

You criticize those who may lead the country, why is it so direct? Why do you mix in our country? Can you make it clear that what you say is the attitude of the State from which it comes are not your attitudes?

O'Connell: This is very important, that relations between Kosovo and Britain are unique in the world. We have a kind of friendship and love because of history, about what happened 20 years ago. My job is to maintain and promote the interest of my country, Britain, we are a state, and, as well as European democracy, we have the right to criticize each other if one of the parties influences the interests of the other. And unfortunately, fortunately, we have an interest in Kosovo's success, but if Kosovo fails, it affects Britain as well. And the failures he has experienced especially in the field of fighting organized crime affect Britain's interest. When we criticise as British government, Kosovo as state or society, for some of the negative phenomena, it is because it is in the common interest of the Kosovo and Britain society to correct.

I mentioned this simply to explain to the public because we believe that you criticize those who are involved in these issues and do not like that you mention them. Let's talk a little bit about organised crime, the rule of law in Kosovo. How do you see it and where do you believe Kosovo is most stuck in this regard?

O'Connell: I believe there were improvements, there were arrests, there were indictments, there are good people within the system, but the results are missing, and every research shows that even though investigated, people are not indicted, if the indictments fail. When the same mistake is repeated years of repeating the impression that it is not wrong, it is deliberately, to have culture, the state of impunity with people related to those in power, or people who have political ties. When good areas for organised crime are created, somewhere in Europe, and it's not only in Kosovo, let's not miss out thinking that Kosovo is unique in this respect, but if gaps are created, risks are created for all, and the situation in Kosovo is that there are not many indictments, and no judgments, sentences, for groups that are related to organised crime.

Do we dare say, if we look at all this that has happened over the years, organized crimes and non-days, can we say that those who are leading are involved and are also affecting the justice system? Is this a captured country, if I'm not mistaken I've heard you say that?

O'Connell: The whole situation is complicated. We need to ask why a mistake is repeated years ago and politics are not created? We had the recruiting process in the justice system in court, why wasn't the process transparent to civil society? There's no trust in this system of things, there's been a lot of evidence that has been captured for political interests, Pronto recordings have told us about the system. We know that there is nepotism, we know that the process is not pleasing, we know there is no trust, why when there is a situation that doesn't open up the process to have transparency of civil society, and to Kosovo experts, we don't want to have oversight of Kosovo, but why not then a transparent process to restore the trust of Kosovo citizens and Kosovo friends in the system, and if that's not the case, it creates the impression that someone has no interest in having a justice system, independent.

Can civil society do something more, or what to do, when we see that there is no transparency, no change, who should act more in our country?

O'ConnellI think that civil society is loud, there's been enough reports, evidence is not missing. I think it's very important not to blame anyone else. If I were a citizen of Kosovo, I would be responsible for the country's developments.

What would you do, go out on protests, what would be the ways that as a citizen you would seek transparency and accountability?

O'Connell: No Albanian has been happy when the film é Takeen was shown, how many conversations I have had with my Albanian friends, either from Albania or Kosovo, for the image that has been created for Albanians. I know Albanians are not criminals, in fact people here are honest, direct, but when the world sees people continuing to vote for parties that have close ties with criminals, which include criminals on their candidate list, it is very difficult to reason abroad, our future abroad, that Albanians are not part of criminal groups. Elections come, my prayer would be, that any party that has criminal ties, which has criminals inside, their structures will be punished, and if the world is not unfortunately punished the world will continue to conclude that Albanians are OK with criminals.

We'll talk later about the people with the charges that are in the parties, do you believe there are parties in Kosovo that don't have such people inside, with charges?

O'Connell: I believe that every party is not the same, I also believe that there are good people inside every party, they, if not for the involvement of criminals, they have to raise their voices to oppose this party, that people are accepted because they control many votes, have a lot of power, for reasons that for us, and Kosovo citizens are unacceptable.

Ambassador, we are talking about persons with the indictment, we will talk about a decision by the president of the ruling Democratic Party of Kosovo, Kadri Veselin, where he says all those with the indictment must leave the party, but also from the state positions, those positions they have. We have seen that some ministers and deputy ministers were removed, but not even persons who have become branch chiefs of these parties, who in the future may also be candidates for mayor of those respective municipalities. How have you seen this decision, it's done for the sake of fighting this?

O'Connell: It's a good step to express itself against corruption and I have no dilemma to say it's a good step. And any turning away from people, with lawsuit or accusation, or criminal connection, is a good step, from any party. People must be tried, the system must be set free, people within the system should have political support to do their job, there should be no mix in the recruiting process. Someone from the party is moving away, but it affects more if you control a judge, a prosecutor who is abused for political or personal reasons. It is very important that the entire system is cleared up, it is worse to have judges who owe someone in politics than then the president of the smaller party branch that has had criminal ties. It would be a week-long scandal in Britain if there were one, one of the main parties, with criminal connections, and that's the only way to create pure political culture, and no scandal would be accepted. When they talk about fans of one party, scandal in one party and react to the fact that the other party is blacker, what it's about, my message about Kosovo would be if you're not paid by the party, or you're not part of the network, why you support things that are not acceptable. If your party makes a violation, cheats with the votes, cheats with position, they should show.

But they promise employment...

O'Connell: I have heard this reasoning; How can we react if we need a job? There are reactions in Africa, popular movements in Africa, people do not accept negative phenomena. Kosovo is cleaner than these societies, they react. There are unemployment in Kosovo, there is poverty, but are people satisfied with the situation, talking about rule of law, we are not satisfied, I think people are not satisfied, and that's the price of democracy, the only way to oppose these phenomena is the response of citizens. Speaking of employment, they are not jobs created by politicians, they are jobs in state administration, they will continue to exist. And if citizens' votes are only for work, Kosovo will not have a bright future that is possible for this country.

We are not seeing the citizens' response, at least a big reaction is not being made. We have seen the exits of Kosovo citizens, those who are leading with the country say they are going to better jobs and schooling, but we have seen poor families without life, we have seen all aspects that go. Why do you think they are leaving and what needs to be done so that they do not leave Kosovo?

O'ConnellI think it's about hope, talking to people who have lost hope for the future. Many people from the diaspora have returned to Kosovo after the war and after the declaration of Independence, but have returned to countries where they have lived and taken citizenship because they have lost hope. But, thinking of Kosovo's youth and the energy that still continues in this country, there must be reasons for hope in the future, this future comes only with the demand of citizens. If the rulers don't have the price for negative phenomena, or for failures, they'll continue, this is normal all over the world. If they can continue in power by not correcting their problems, they will continue in power. Only by citizens' response and request will they change their approach. Why are they going? Because they have lost hope. I am optimistic about Kosovo.

That's what I'm asking you, do you think there's hope?

O'Connell: I am optimistic for many reasons, for Kosovo's youth, for Kosovo's achievements in recent years, in sports, technology and art, are things that are not related to the government, are things where people have made their own success, and shows that there is reason to have optimism for Kosovars. In the field of rule of law, there have been indictments of courageous prosecutors for people who are related to politics, this shows us that there are capable, clean people who want things better. There have been good developments, even by the government, with the process of recruiting, sometimes wrong, news this week has had reactions from European Integration Ministry officials, where employment of educated people abroad paid off by the EU has been ignored. And, the reactions of such officials, the heroes of Kosovo, give me the hope that there are people who want to fight for this country. We as friends of Kosovo need such people, we have invested a lot, we have an interest that every part in Europe is safe, prosperous and stable, because if not, it affects us too. I am optimistic but this new spirit of positive development needs to be strengthened.

The people of Kosovo have been dominated, and have been taught to have someone else, not to decide for themselves. With friends like Britain, America, and others, with the intervention that took place in 99, hope is that someone else has to do something for them, in this case the people of Kosovo have the conviction that you have to do something for us to have a better life. How do we explain to citizens who should start taking matters into their own hands, how to oppose bad policies?

O'Connell: They ask me, did you deliver us from the invasion? Why didn't you rescue us for voting? Democracy is right when it's responsible. You can't keep saying you have to release us, and we just have to use the votes for banal reasons, for work, or to evaluate someone who died 100 years ago. The vote is sacred, it is the only way to change politics and people have to use it, not to think it's the duty of British citizens, British taxpayers to change Kosovo's system. We will not do it, we will not intervene, we will not decide who would be Kosovo's prime minister and president, that is right when it has the responsibility of Kosovo citizens.

Ambassador, I have heard you in many interviews, while you mention the names of people who are in charge, who we all know publicly, even convicts who have been misbehaved in our country, have also escaped from justice, one of them is Jabir Zraku, you mentioned other names. Can you tell us a few names if there are good politicians you appreciate who are hoping for our country, or do we all have them?

O'Connell: There are good people, and Jabir Zharku likes me, because we can use it to understand how serious politicians are to fix the situation. There have been criminal, corrupt politicians here, but Jabir Zhark's case tells us that he has legally left Kosovo, has returned to Kosovo, with no problem. If it were me, I'd be embarrassed. Fleeing from justice, claiming a political path. We might ask if politicians have reacted, have they closed the gaps that have allowed such a criminal to evade justice. We've been closely cooperating with Abelard Tahiri to close some gaps, in fact some have been shut down have made reforms, I think it would be harder now to get people out. The minister is not responsible for the court ruling, but if the judges are wrong or there are gaps, if there is a problem with recruiting, has the minister or not reacted? And that's something citizens need to measure. There are good people inside every party, I don't want to mention leaders, but thinking of the lower level, I mentioned Abelard, Vlora Citak, we've worked closely with Ardian Gjini, Saranda Bogujevcin, Arban Abrasin, Jelal Svechla has done good work, there are good people, but they dare not comply with the logic of nepotism, clientism, and the capture of the state.

And we mention the state, the government, all of it, I have to ask you, do you actually see the political situation that is in a corner of Kosovo? We have a retired prime minister, and there is still no decision on what it will be made, we will have a second mandate, or the Parliament will be distributed.

O'ConnellThe saying of the choice.

Should we choose?

O'Connell: The question of elections or not is fully questions for Kosovo, we do not want to have responsibility for Kosovo's political decisions. That is the logic of Independence, Kosovo must set its own policy. We will not accept responsibility, we are not for any government, against no government, we will not be for elections either. But there seems to be after, and if it happens, it is very important that citizens understand the value of their vote, not have the influence or threats it has had, especially by a party towards the Serb community in Kosovo, which is documented by the EU mission, and I am surprised there has been no more reaction from Kosovo's organs. It's like someone liked winning a political subject here. It is very important not to have manipulations in the process because competition has been too high. But it is also very important that citizens understand that if elections come, part of the goodwill that has been created for Kosovo during the 9th and war has been spent and spent very quickly. It is not that the world has forgotten what happened in Kosovo but that Kosovo's current leaders do not owe Kosovo, they do not have one that an older generation has had for Kosovo. We have to accept the reality of how Kosovo is presented to the world, and it is not presented for good reasons, in most cases, we are aware of criminal ties across Europe, it has been about Kosovo, we are aware of the rule of law, we are actually aware of other things that have not gone well in Kosovo. It's a situation, it's a red time for Kosovo, and I hope that citizens will remember this.

You're saying that Britain should not get involved whether there will be elections or not Kosovo decides, do you think the electoral system in Kosovo allows it to be voted. I don't remember if you've been in Kosovo in past elections has been a months-long political stalemate that Kosovo has been blocked. How much danger do we get back in this mess because we have the same people we've been voting on for many years?

O'Connell: Kosovo should not expect the answer of foreigners. Who designed the system? I UNMIK. This is normal, that Kosovo does not feel a hundred percent potent for decisions, because of history, Kosovo has not been responsible for developments since the arrival of the Romans 2,000 years ago. It is very important that these be responsible, have voted for changes, they understand. You have a separate system, that's the reason to continue dialogue with Serbia, because I think that the final agreement offers opportunities to address the issue of the electoral system. There has not been much energy from political parties to repair, it needs pressure from citizens, but ultimately the inability to vote otherwise, unable to seek changes, nothing can happen unless citizens vote that way.

Ambassador, we're saying it's this electoral system, but we in Kosovo have seen that no government has completed the mandate properly, it's always had a problem, and it's probably reasonable that citizens fear that we might have a block of institutions that happened in the past. Do you think there's been a change in leaders from the past, so that there's not a block. Because we're spending on elections, citizens are constantly coming up in elections, we've always got a government that's on numbers, they're fighting to buy one vote the other side.

O'Connell: You have a system that is possible neither the government nor the opposition in succession. If it's not an appropriate situation, Kosovo has access to the Venice Commission, they can give the opinion, they can probably fix these things. Kosovo has the opportunity to fix it. If I were a citizen I would have thought my vote had value, every system has its own specifications, but citizens can ask for changes. But I'm impressed that people don't always think critically. If a politician can erase the record himself by making patriotic gestures, it means there is no further responsibility or accountability within the system. If the party wants votes without a plan-program it means we have to have doubts about the goals, if they seek power by not telling what it has to use power if it wins. I've heard the criticism sometimes about politicians from a party who are just seeking power, this is idiotic, every politician wants power, the question of citizens should be about what they want power, have they explained their intentions, their plans, their strategy, or just looking for a slogan, for patriotic reasons, I'm more patriotic than others. If they don't explain what happens, we can assume they're going to abuse power.

According to the likelihood, if there are elections in Kosovo, I believe we will hear many promises, would it be shameful, and how would we explain to citizens that the promise of visa liberalisation, how to explain that promise will be in the elections. Do you find it shameful to promise visa liberalisation again?

O'Connell: Basically we should appreciate the promises of politicians, as citizens, if we believe that he or she has fulfilled the promises before, we can believe in the future.

We've had this promise for many years, and no one has fulfilled it.

O'Connell: If someone promises something that is not fulfilled and we continue to believe, we must accept the guilt of this situation. This issue is not fully in control of Kosovo politicians, in fact it has been more in control, four years ago, but Kosovo undermines the situation with the completely disgusting issue -- the border with Montenegro -- this has been without any logic. This is the message that needs to be heard, politicians will react after citizens demand, if citizens prefer patriotic gestures rather than good governance, than the fight against corruption, politicians will offer patriotic gestures. If citizens vote for jobs and patriotic gestures, the situation will continue to offer the same.

Are you saying we have what we deserve?

O'Connell: In democracy, citizens must accept the government they deserve.

You mention the border with Montenegro, very February, I want to ask you, before we talk about dialogue, it has been mentioned in Kosovo for months, it has been one of the current topics, border change, exchange of territories, take a part of the Valley and give a part of the north, then statements have been changed, and these statements have been issued by the president of Kosovo, and not a simple man. How does Britain value this topic, we must and dare to have a difference of borders?

O'Connell: We said what we said, and Britain's position hasn't changed. What's the point of politics? What is the goal of Kosovo? If the goal of the political system in Kosovo remains to commend the nation, to deal with patriotic items, the focus of policy will remain there and the education system will not improve, investments will not come, unemployment will not decline, health will remain in a difficult position. Kosovo must assign what it requires of negotiations, what is the vision for Kosovo for itself and the region. We've had a situation for two to three years when it's proposed something, then what is the reaction of the international community what the foreigners think, my question is what is Kosovo's offer, what does Kosovo require, what is Kosovo's vision?

You said that dialogue should continue and we've always heard statements that dialogue should be carried out unconditionally, by either side, it may seem to us that Serbia always has conditions, but should Kosovo also set conditions, or should the EU decide on both sides, to remove the terms of both sides?

O'Connell: The current situation is not in Serbia's interest, it is not in the interest of Kosovo not to have access on the future international road, not to have access to the United Nations, but also the situation remains hostage to history that we continue to deal with patriotic issues and ignore the important issues of the state. I mean that to have a final agreement between Kosovo and Serbia, it would be too valuable for the political situation in the country. I hope and I sincerely think that it would free the situation here. It's completely in the interest of Kosovo, but I wouldn't have given the condition to participate, I would have said it's very important that we continue.

Should Kosovo seek accounts for the violated, for the damages that have been caused during the war?

O'Connell: It is completely right to seek accounts and include other issues in this dialogue, let's fix it all, let's fix the issues of the past and the relations between Kosovo and Serbia in the future, have a vision from Kosovo, positive.

Has not Kosovo had this vision so far?

O'Connell: All the political talk in Kosovo is about changes of borders, we're not hearing about rights, we're not hearing about relations, we're not hearing about trade, we're not hearing about European integration, we're now hearing about victims, but very unilaterally, the issue of the missing politically abused, listening to the debate allegedly that Serbia knows the fate of 1650 missing people, for me it's looking very uncomfortable when people use this number, not saying 400 of them are Kosovo Serbs. It is part of the same problem that patriotic issues can be used to draw the attention of citizens from real problems.

Are you saying that changing borders has been used in patriotic matters?

O'Connell: I think it is very important that Kosovo offer its vision. We do not have the process of continuing dialogue now, speaking that there is after the elections, that means that there must be another pause, every party in Kosovo should assume responsibility to have a position, not a final position, but a position, bid for the dialogue issue, to facilitate when the government forms immediate continuation of dialogue.

It is a 100% firm tax on products coming from Serbia and Bosnia and Herzegovina, should that tax be removed, you can talk about the matter. It has remained so now, expected at another prime minister's arrival what will it do with it?

O'Connell: I understand why it has been decided, we know it has not been a unilateral Kosovo action, which has also had provocations from Serbia, attacks by KSF members, and conduct towards Kosovo membership in INTERPOL. Let's have a strategic approach, what are the interests of Kosovo, the interests of Kosovo are to have good relations in the region, final agreements, good relations with democratic snow, to free trade, to have investments. Does the tariffs help? It may be that a response has helped the situation, but now we have to think more broadly, it is in Kosovo's interests to have a dialogue, to have final agreements, to use any opportunity by pursuing a strategy, and I don't notice any party's tariff strategy. It was just a gesture. If Kosovo says we want to have an agreement involving these conditions, and if Serbia makes this gesture we will then remove it, if it were part of the strategy it would be more valuable for Kosovo. Each party should consider how we can get rid of it.

Since taxes on these goods have been imposed on Kosovo, we have heard different statements in Kosovo -- what I want to ask you -- did Kosovo jeopardise relations with Britain with this case, since it is you, because of this tax or any policy action in the country?

O'Connell: We have good relations, this is not part of the bilateral relationship between Kosovo and Britain, but this should not be the alpha and omega for Kosovo, Kosovo should be targeted at how it could free the political situation in Kosovo from patriotic questions, to have attention to questions that are important to citizens... to have relations with Serbia, if any party could seek movement from the other side, it would remain blocked. This is no British interest, I mean, we spend our political energy on the fee now, not helping Kosovo in other areas, not strengthening bilateral relations, we all waste energy on this issue that is actually not in the interest of Kosovo.

We mentioned investments and taxes is kind of commercial freedom, can you tell me, there are big English investments in Kosovo, what's the problem?

O'Connell: Rule of the law, Kosovo is a small market, probably, I tell investors always that there are opportunities for profit, for business here, having access to the regional market, regional market is complicated by tariffs, we have to accept that it is an obstacle to investors, but most of the cases are happening even faster than I would like, that comes an investor discovers the possibility in Kosovo, does research and, at the end of the process, do research about the justice system, and decide not to invest in Kosovo, because the risks are too big.

Because they see they won't have a chance to defend their rights, will they? And all in the end, I know it's your last weeks in Kosovo, all these years you've been serving in Kosovo, what's the last message you'll leave to citizens before you leave this country. You're also Kosovo's son-in-law, we say, what's the really dry message, that they have to decide for themselves, but at a farewell from you, what do you say to the citizens?

O'Connell: Foreign Secretary at this time of Britain asked me why I am returning to Kosovo for the second time, I told him because I am optimistic, because I believe in the power of Kosovars. After five years I continue to believe in power, in ability, in Kosovars' vision for his country. My last message is: to realise this vision they must take responsibility, not accept the bad, to seek the good, there is no place like Kosovo around the world, and Kosovo citizens deserve the brightest future in the world.

You'll miss Kosovo, has it started yet?

O'ConnellToo much.