Listening to First Witness in The Hague Continues With Gucati Lawyer Questions

Zenka Pumper, who is an investigator in the SPS and is testifying to this trial, has said the documents, which he examined, had been defined as confidential, but was unaware of who were the people who had made such a determination.

Pumper said that prior to September 25, 2020, he has not seen any documents from what he has then considered a package 1, since, according to her, this date has even been included in the investigation of the issue.

The Witness has answered Hysni Gucati's defense questions, lawyer Jonathan Elusan Rees.

Lawyer Rees: Have you seen any of the documents that were in what you call package1, before you started your review, shortly after September 25th?

Pump Witness: No.

Lawyer Rees: No single documents?

Witness Pumper: I don't think I've seen it.

Lawyer Rees: In paragraph 6 of the declaration, describe package 1 as a package containing 891 pages of documents in English, Serbian, German. You speak very well English, I believe you speak German, but you speak Serbian, or did they have help translating documents?

Witness: Both of them.

Lawyer Rees: When you saw the translation, have you kept a footnote on translations?

Witness Pumper: Yeah, we took notes.

Lawyer Rees: Where are these?

Witness Pumper: They're in the database.

Lawyer Rees: Which one?

Witness Pumper: In the internal database.

Lawyer Rees: So a document that has not been submitted for testing purposes.

Witness Pumper: That's right, there's no stamp.

Lawyer Rees: However, is it kept in the SPS database?

Witness Pumper: Yeah, that's right.

Lawyer Rees: In paragraph 7, state that package 1 includes confidential requests for help, right?

Witness Pumper: Yeah.

Lawyer Rees: Is that what you'd like to say that these requests for help were confidential?

Witness Pumper: Yes, they were confidential requests.

Lawyer Rees: How did you or how do you understand the word privacy when you made that statement, remember that the requirements were confidential and measured the degree when these requirements should be classified as confidential?

Prosecutor Bolic: We object, these are the same questions that were asked yesterday that you refused to accept, sir.

Lawyer Rees has insisted that the witness show the way to define certain documents as confidential.

Lawyer Rees: What traits did you take into account, what traits that made you believe it was confidential, what traits did you not think a document was confidential?

Witness Pumper: I've seen one from one document and for each document I've listed features that I thought might be confidential, for example what is specifically stated in the document that the document is confidential, the document had a number of cases issued by the war crimes prosecutor in Serbia, by the police in Serbia, or by the TFHC, that the document kept information on crimes or details of persons, witnesses, or potential witnesses, personal details were describing information about crimes.

Lawyer Rees: You didn't take into account, when you saw the confidential word attaching to the document, if any proper authority, that was classified as confidential documents?

Witness Pumper: No.

Lawyer Rees: If the document classification process was legitimate?

Witness Pumper: No, I didn't do that.

Lawyer Rees: If the classification was necessary?

Witness Pumper: No.

Lawyer Rees: If used to conceal violation of authority of competence, for example?

Prosecutor Bolic: I object, the witness shows the factors she took into account.

Judge: I accept opposition, questions have been asked, and you are trying to add evidence that she is not willing to give.

Lawyer Rees: And who were the people who defined documents as confidential in Serbia?

Witness Pumper: I don't know who these people were, I've seen documents that had this definition and it looked like they were from Serbian institutions.

Lawyer Rees: Have you verified the authority of these people to define documents in Serbia as confidential?

Witness Pumper: No.

Lawyer Rees: Have you verified that it has become proper in Serbia for Serbian documents to be classified as confidential?

Witness Pumper: No.

The lawyer Ree has also introduced to the witness some documents of September 8th, which he has said were transcripts of an interview. The same have not been made known to the public.

Lawyer Rees: You were aware that there was considerable interest in the press as far as the 7 September event was concerned, do you agree, that there was an interest in the press?

Witness Pumper: I didn't pay any attention back then because I was involved in another job.

Lawyer Res: So you didn't know about reports, reports, television articles, and the press what about the events of September 7th?

Witness Pumper: Yeah, I mean, I've been paying attention to them, of course I've heard of them, but I haven't.

Lawyer Rees: How did you start the review, asked you to do it, or did you start at your initiative?

Witness Pumper: I'm being charged.

Lawyer Rees: So the normal work procedure in the SPS is to charge a verbal task to do a task, without holding a verbal process, any documentation?

Witness Pumper: Yeah, that's right.

Lawyer Rees: Who charged you with this task?

Witness Puper: Mrs. Bolic.

Lawyer Rees: What does she ask you to do?

Witness Pumper: I don't remember the details.

Lawyer Rees: So if it had been written down, it would have been a helpful document.

Witness Zenka Pumper said that the documents she examined and classified as package 1 were copies.

The hearing of the first witness is continuing at the Specialised Chambers in The Hague, and this is the third day of her testimony. Nasim Haradinaj's Hysni Gucati are participating in the physical presence session.

The OVL-KLA's former leaders are charged with criminal acts against administration of justice, namely obstructing official persons in performing official duties, fearing witnesses, revenge and violating the secret of the procedure.

In the organization they were running, there were several packages allegedly containing documents derived from the Special Prosecutor's Office. All of this they had made public through media conferences and other public presentations.

They have been arrested on 25 September 2020 in Pristina since they were also held at The Hague detention centre.