Kadare: The state had ready the coffin for me, the investigator is still alive

In all times, writers have had reports of political powers complicated, especially dictatorships. Ismail Kadare is one of those writers who lived in the skin this kind of report. On the one hand, the most valued writer inside and outside Albania, and the most widely followed.

In an interview for “Day Welt”Kadare talks about this report. He confessed to a secret file intended to link him to a <x0 conspiratorist group”, whose members were sentenced to death. According to Kadare, the regime had the coffin ready for the writer.

Vjollca Hajdari, (journalist, politicalologist, ethnologist and translator in Berlin), has interviewed writer Ismail Kadare, on the case of the publication by Fischer Verge, of the novel “The obstructed”, translated by Joachim Ram.

The interview was taken to the writer's favourite café, “Le Rostand”, where he was with his lady Helena. The following is the integral text of the interview, published on July 22, 2017, cultural pages of the large German newspaper “Die Welt”.

Mr. Kadare, you are the most famous Albanian writer in the world. Through you Albanian literature took place in the international arena. What does this achievement mean to you, Albanians and, in particular, Albania?

Let me repeat the popular opinion that literature, like the most spectacular spiritual wealth of our planet, has two fundamental traits: it is universal and it is eternal. As a result, they all talk about it at any time. Maybe that's why talking about it seems easy, but here you have to add that making mistakes is even easier. No writer creates literature for himself. So much less, no people. From her very first day, she's created for everyone. England wants to keep Shakespeare to itself, it's not up to it. He belongs to all of us. There is no map of peoples where literature can be produced, another map that is impossible.

Albania, as a small and isolated country, was unknown to the world. How would you introduce Albania to foreign readers, and how would you know it with Albania and Albanians?

Literature is not designed to make known the peoples. That's enough atlas, history books, and the like. Literature is so independent that in every language translated, literature is reborn. That's the point of her magic. Of course, knowing the country or people to whom literature is born comes naturally, but that is never a purpose in itself. The ancient city of Troy is the most shocking example. The purpose of the Greeks when they destroyed it was that no memory, no trace, not even the name remain. But the opposite was true. Thanks to literary art, Troy fed some three thousand years, even continuing to feed mankind's memory today. From this standpoint, the Trojan case can be said to be the greatest paradox of our world.

You've been nominated many times for the “Nobel” literature. Besides the great expectations of your worshipers, you haven't got it. Why? What do you think, what's the problem?
I honestly don't have any answers to your question. Among the customs of our world are questions of this nature. There are colleagues who get annoyed by them. I think there's no place to bother. On the contrary, I find it a beautiful custom that, when the time of this prize is near, as with the approach of Christmas, when familiar questions are asked, where you will spend holidays, etc., many people ask about it. I think literature should be grateful to this attention, to the world's somewhat naive public.

Evil fairies say that you did not receive the “Nobel” Prize for literature because, according to them, you were “in harmony with the then communist system, as long as you are known as the universal voice against totalitarianism. Does that not stand in opposition to your attitude? Is it time to get rid of such statements forever?

Starting at the end. You're right, but it's not about writers dealing with such clarifications. The issue of literature reports with a tyrannical regime is usually complicated. History does not provide any regime that did not provoke literature. The regime, especially that totalitarian, tries to conceal such frustration. In fact, he often flatters literature at the time he strives to control it, watch it, remember prison, even death. The hostility between literature and tyranny comes naturally from the nature of both. It is known that literature has at its core freedom, emancipation, democracy, just as tyranny has the opposite. In the case of renowned writers, the greater the recognition, the more dramatic the problem becomes. A dictatorship cannot bear parallel authority without mentioning envy, the trait often the number one of every ruler. A well - known paradox appears on this occasion: A first - class literature can develop in a cruel regime. The regime tries to take advantage of it. They're known for the literature that honors the country, etc., meaning, even the regime. Literature never did that. If it is for honor, she has honored herself. The dictatorial acts are noted not only for savagery but also for cunning. Years of dating, they have prepared secret files for writers, especially their balming. After the fall of communism in Albania, I was one of the first to seek the opening of secret archives. Today we're talking together, after 27 years, that hasn't happened yet. Even when an archive document has been discovered by chance, instead of promoting further research, it is quietly surrounded. A few years ago, I came across it, case-by-case, a report by the Albanian secret investigator of 1982. Since the report was published in the press and then reprinted, I'm telling you, to get an idea of what these secret files are all about, but no one has seen them.

What's this report about?

This report is required to confirm that the writer you are talking to today, I.K., has been a member of a conspirator group aimed at overthrowing the state. As you can see, it's not about trivialities, it's about super-serious things <x0). You, if you have curiosity, can easily find that report. It is the text of Albanian Health Minister Dr. Zichiz, died under torture that same year. In the report are the “holes of the plot”, along with the name of the investigator, who is still alive in Albania, untamed by anyone. Asked by a new Albanian journalist, the investigator has acknowledged the authenticity of the text.

What happened then?

The job is done. Those <x0gogues -- you mentioned in this interview -- showed no interest in this document, showing the nature of the writer's report with the dictatorial state. After the fall of communism, I thought I'd brag that I was part of the conspiracy against the state, because that was just true, but the secret file is there. It clearly shows that the State had the coffin ready for the writer, and it was not just his command. Which had happened on many other occasions.

Can you expand the phenomenon more widely, starting with this fact?

The writer is not a miracle worker. It cannot fix the setbacks of a country that has received the capullam, as has been the case of communist Albania. Meanwhile, the writer bears responsibility for the literature he creates, in all circumstances, even in seemingly impossible, especially the noted writer. The greater the recognition, the more sensitive the responsibility becomes. Since we're talking together and since you asked me the question, let me answer it more precisely for my case. I've become known, not after the fall of communism, when you could describe its lust without being endangered by anything. I would add that I did not write the work on some Swiss lake beach - outside tyrannical Albania - but inside. That's exactly what happened. In 1960, I was a well - known writer in Stalinist Albania. Meanwhile, in 1970 something rare happened: After the translation of a book in Paris, I gained world recognition for a short time, which at that time meant Western recognition. The shock is not limited to such a case - the writer himself - to his readers, the Communist state where he lives. Meanwhile, what may have seemed to be a wonderful event may suddenly turn against you. As it did. The writer is in constant doubt. At the heart of doubt is the question: Why does the Western world, “boorghesia”, our sworn enemy, while hating our heroic, Bolsevic, etc., like you so much? I'm not extending for the situation that was created. The paranoid Albanian state was found unprepared. I had silence and secret files, maybe like the one I told you about. And nothing was said plainly. As far as I realized, they were expecting me myself to show the location of the bourgeois”. In other words, I have declared to you, I am pleased with you, but I am your enemy. Nothing like that ever happened. Under global pressure, the meeting of journalists “bourgeise” was allowed with me. There are dozens of published interviews that can be found and I'm telling you with full moral responsibility that there is no such thing, no paragraph, of what Albanian Stalinists would dream of. This was the first evidence I've overcome, and where the state, I'm not afraid to say, it's got my head down.

Was that hard?

Of course. All it takes is to make up your mind not to distort the essence of truth. I wanted to underline here that generally Western journalists, imagining my difficult position, have been careful not to burden me with it. Whether they wanted it or not, however, the danger came suddenly. Especially when the interviews were live on TV.

What was a moment like this?

I remember a case like this, just in Germany, on Krirlinez TV. The journalist suddenly asked me a question that was fatal for Oriental writers. Mr. Kadare, can you write against the regime? The question, made without the intention of provocation, was in itself the most annoying of all. I had heard that it was not the few writers who were embarrassed by it. The answers to the type that such a thing had to be laid since the writer interviewed had no problem with the regime, etc., appeared in any poor case. In the brief silence that was created, fate helped me to remain calm and answer with a “not”! Then, to explain why: In my country, the law prohibits it. The answer seemed more bold than it really was. Returning to Albania by plane, I wondered how I could protect myself, in case this response was deemed bad “”. The first thing that came to mind were the thousands of plaques filling Albania all over with the words: “Roft the dictatorship of the proletariat!” Well, this place didn't even hide that it was dictatorship, in other words, that it didn't allow anything to touch it, to come up with the law ban of “bourgardies”, etc., etc.

Has the literary work been easier or harder?

That depended on the circumstances. From 1970 to the fall of communism, despite recognition and acceptance in the Western world, I was called a writer of socialist Rism. I did not give this appointment any importance, since he did not play any role in my work. I even used the term so naturally that one of my close, half - joking friends told me that I seemed to call what I wrote. According to him, I was left to call him decadent literature, dogmatic literature, Stalinist, etc. Although all this seemed funny, it had a real core. In my depth I believed that, no matter how paradoxically it sounds, the dogmatic literature of time, such as Albanian, Soviet, or Chinese, in a profound sense of the word, were only “deadent”. Regarding the literature produced in a totalitarian regime, misunderstandings still exist today. The self-use of the term “realism socialist” helps to some degree of chaos. For some, this is a damn appointment and they are ready to deny any creativity associated with it. For others, the term does not have to be taken that seriously. I have always felt that literature is above prejudice, and especially on labels. That's why I'm probably boring with the formula that I wrote normal literature in an abnormal place. I actually keep standing on this formula. During our conversation, I believe it was clarified that I have written at three different times: the first 20-year-old 1950-1970, has been a typical time of socialist reality, with state and readers together. The second 20-year-old 1970-1990 has again been socialist society, but with double readers -- Albanian and world. Finally, the third time, the post - Communist, of total freedom. With full moral responsibility, I can say that my work, written at three different times, with about 40 titles, both inside and outside Albania, is the same, in content, in shape and in messages. None of the books were denied by me. I haven't even waved a dissident flag or a conformer. I was just a writer. I repeat, the same at all three times. Sounds incredible? Let me tell you a curiosity: On this day of discussion, London is on the way to the Man Booker Price, best foreign book of the year, published in Great Britain. Twelve seats have been selected at the 2017 competition. Among them, my country, Albania. Curiosity is this: the book that represents Albania, my novel “The having of shame”, was written about 40 years ago in Albania. Let me be exact: in Stalinist, Bolshevic Albania, the number one enemy of the West, including Great Britain!

And in this book nothing has changed, does it mean it was published in the original form?

The book leaves no pages changed. Add that is a novel about state terror? That's right, too.

In 1990 you sought political asylum in France. Can you explain the reasons for escape? Why did you choose France?

France for Albanians, as for all Balkans, became especially close during Napoleon's time, such as the inspiration to break away from Ottoman rule. Chronicles show that in the Balkans, and especially in parts of Albania, there was a time when “Marceza” was sung as a local patriotic song! I sought political asylum, following a harsh correspondence with President Alia, where I finally realized that no hope could be expected from him, at a time when many people believed he could become like an Albanian Gorbachev.

How is your report to the mother country and how much has your report changed with Albania compared to previous years?

I haven't had any understanding reports with the general public. Rather, understanding has been complete in all cases. Peoples of the Balkan Peninsula are usually imagined too harsh, more prone to strife than to lyrical passions. I have to admit that there is something true in this statement. At the same time, I can't say that these peoples, and among them Albanians, love literature very much, even demean it. It is truly a surprise related to other paradoxes, such as attitude toward women and love. Let me repeat that girls and women, more than in life, where attitude toward them is not to covet, have had luck in art. Rarely are there areas in the world where they are treated as entrances. Literature probably benefited.

Speaking of women. What role has your wife Helena played and played in your life, who is also a writer?

It's hard to imagine how my daily literary creativity would develop without its help. Above all, it has been all the time of our common life, my first reader - my first thought of the work, what about many writers, including me, is of irreplaceable importance. Its literary taste is also unerring. I'm not talking about any other help: moving into its hands of the entire manuscript preparation process, of printing it into ordinators, first correction, and editing and all sorts of technical issues that the writer so needs.

Last year, a large Albanian woman, Mother Teresa, Anjeze Gonge Bojaxhiu, was sanctified in the Vatican. Your comment?

You understand my answer. It was a legitimate pride. Meanwhile, I would add that there was a dramatic extent during the time of communism. While the whole world worshipped it, it was a time when it was not discussed in Albania for two reasons - the first because it was religious and second because it was considered part of the Western world. So intense was this pressure that, despite her prayers, she was not allowed to come visit her family, or simply to put a bunch of flowers in their graves. You know that Berlin has a school, which from 2014 bears the name of Reficent Veselin, Albanian photographers, “Righteous among peoples” who had saved two Jewish families during World War II? No, I didn't. I'm learning it from you. And of course I'm glad about that.

When did you visit Germany, and what impression do you have from the German state?

Germany has been present in Albania since its return to Europe. According to a tradition that was taking place in the Balkans, the first European-Albanian royal dynasty has been Germanist since 1914, with the approval of the Great Powers. Unfortunately, this first phase of Albania's integration into Europe, (the dream we are still talking together), World War I broke up. After a new Albanian king -- who was dramatically shut down -- Albania ended up in a fascist state that fell along with the Italian axis. Then came the popular story of the establishment of communism, of the highly passionate friendship with the communist camp, of the equally passionate hostility with it, of friendship with the Chinese, of sad isolation, until the fall of communism. All this time, West Germany was the only Western state that, taking advantage of Albania's hostility with the communist camp, tried to draw it to Europe. The mission undertaken by Strauss was impossible because Albania, being truly hostile with its former communist friends, was already more stable than they! That was not easy to understand! Meanwhile, a hope was spread in Albania with the German “@x1>. It was always about West Germany. Two-three trips of mine, due to German publications, took place in this very Germany <x2-capitalist”>. And I've entered Berlin half secretly! I'm not spending time with this big story, which lasted until the time Albania was finally found, along with today's Germany, in the Atlantic Alliance. I can say with confidence that despite the paradox created by history, a positive feeling for the Germans and Germany has always been present in Albania. The explanation for this could likely be related to gratitude to German scientists who have been taken in Albanian, deeper and more seriously than anyone, including Albanians themselves. This may seem excessive if you are unaware of the limitless worship of the language that, in the eyes of Albanians, had already taken on the aura of a martyr, especially after its decree by the Ottoman state.

Three years ago Turkish President Erdogan was in Kosovo and called Kosovo Turkey. What do you think of that?

I'm aware of this statement, and the only thing I can say is that when I read it I didn't trust my eyes.