Milosevic as a Mafia leader, The KLA has performed an important function: General Clark's story as never before

General Clark has confessed in front of Blendi Fevziu details from NATO bombings on Serbia during the Kosovo war. Clark describes Slobodan Milosevic “as a gangster, as a mafia leader”. He also speaks of background during the war, decisions that were made about bombings, relations with KLA leaders, etc.

Blendi Fevziu: Welcome to Albania, General Clark.

Wesley Clark: Thank you.

Blendi Fevziu: A very interesting visit, even to Macedonia and Kosovo.

Wesley Clark: Two wonderful and amazing days of seeing progress here

Blendi Fevziu: Your name is very important in the history of Albania, Kosovo and Macedonia, as commander of NATO during the Kosovo war. Before the war with Milosevic, you had many meetings. How was that man?

Wesley Clark: He was a gangster, a mob leader. He manipulated and forced people to do things without even speaking. “I'm not saying you kill him. Do what is necessary” And they were to blame.

Blendi Fevziu: Was he afraid of the American Army?

Wesley Clark: Yes, he did.

Blendi Fevziu: But he endured to the end. He thought NATO would never bomb Yugoslavia.

Wesley Clark: I think it's true, and he also believed, maybe the Russians told him that even if NATO bombs, it lasts two or three days.

Blendi Fevziu: I didn't think you were serious?

Wesley Clark: He thought that after a day or two, he could persuade a state in NATO to give up the campaign. She believed that Kosovo was more important to her than to her NATO. Why is Spain interested in Kosovo? They don't even know where he is.

Blendi Fevziu: Why France? It was a wonder or a miracle that all NATO nations joined during the campaign. Problem?

Wesley Clark: We knew that unity was everything. NATO unity was more important than any target. No problem. First, we maintained unity. It was simply a military campaign in which a target should be destroyed within 48 hours. No, there were no ground bodies. We tried to use force to power diplomacy, convince Milosevic that this thing would continue forever and he could never win. Once he understood it, he knew he had to surrender.

Blendi Fevziu: So, war combined with diplomacy. Did you think the campaign would take three months and a few days, that long?

Wesley Clark: At first some nations believed that Milosevic would surrender since the first bombings, but... Nothing was known. I called General Oidenic, the Serbian military chief after the first night of the bombing. I told him that I just wanted to talk to him, to know that the bombings would continue, so they had to surrender. He hung up on me, of course.

Blendi Fevziu: No MIGA-29 at the time?

Wesley Clark: At the first press conference with Secretary Solana, I said we would attack and destroy all those assets worth Milosevic until he surrendered.

Blendi Fevziu: The first two MIGAs were destroyed on the first day. In the book, you say that at the first meeting Milosevic and the Yugoslav Army were explaining to you the power of the KLA. Why was victory against Milosevic impossible U n CK when it was 400, here's 1,000 in front of the great Yugoslav Army.

Wesley Clark: When you treat people badly, you get against them more. Each time he fought with the KLA, he killed Albanians and irritated the Albanian people more. In March 1998, I went to Macedonia to see the task force, over 1,000 soldiers at the border. When I sat down, I received a call from the American ambassador. He asked me to meet with President Gligorov immediately. He told me something really bad was gonna happen. Serbs have made a huge mistake killing the Jashar family. Albanians are not like Bosniaks. These will fight. There will be real conflict here.

Blendi Fevziu: Your discussion with Milosevic, given in the book, is very important for us even after the war. Milosevic told you <x0 general, if you leave us, we'll kill them all. We killed them at 46. It took us a long time, but we killed them all. How was this discussion?

Wesley Clark: It was my third visit to Belgrade after NATO issued the command of activism, “Activation Order”, September, 1998. On his first visit, General Nauman urged Milosevic to withdraw additional forces. Solana said so too. Milosevic tried to deny those forces were there. They didn't. On my second visit, instructed by the White House, I went to meet Milosevic and told him that we would bomb him if he pulled those forces. He said, okay, talk to my generals. When we spoke to them, they said there were terrorists here, here and here, pointing fingers at the map. I told them that they were just people trying to protect their families. Every time you kill, you make more enemies. You can't win with these tactics. No, they did not. The third time I called General Nauman. We ran all night with Milosevic. The next morning Sunday, they finally press the memorandum of agreement. I wanted them to write that Serbs would withdraw and stop the attacks. We wrote down the agreement and shortly before we signed it, Milosevic appeared. Cup in hand, Sunday morning, 10:00. It was blowing, all of it. He said: General Clark, we know how to deal with these Albanians, these murderers, rapists, criminals like them themselves. We've done it before. You did it? Yeah, he said, 1946. How so? We killed them. We killed them all. He told me directly, on his face. I told him this was really heavy. Then they brought me the memo. I saw it and said: “Z. President, your name is not at all here” He said it wasn't necessary. I'll sign Mr. President. Shajnovic. I said no, you'll sign it. He said well and signed it. That was the best we could do for diplomacy in the fall of 1998. A few weeks later, Russian troops arrived. They obviously told him not to worry about NATO, they bombed in Afghanistan and didn't work. We will do anything to split the coalition, NATO. I think Milosevic was left there with a free hand to start ethnic cleansing.

Blendi Fevziu: You were part of Holbrooke's group, even peace in Bosnia, let's say. Milosevic was more determined on the issue of Bosnia or Kosovo?

Wesley Clark: In the case of Bosnia, he wanted to stop the war, he was looking for a way out. But in the matter of Kosovo, for whatever reason, politics, health... Maybe there was a bunch of Serbs that caused him internal problems. I don't know why, but he refused to let NATO settle in and establish peace in the province. We had negotiations under French leadership in Rambouille. President Chirac said Americans had done a lot. Let us do the same. The side went to Rambouille. We told them when it started. If both sides agreed, NATO would introduce peacekeeping forces and solve the problem. If Albanians did not agree, NATO no longer supports. If Serbs and Albanians did not agree, NATO would support Albanians. After 3 or 4 weeks, Albanians with Hashim Thaci at the helm said they agreed. Let NATO come.

Blendi Fevziu: You saw the meeting with Hashim Thaci and the delegation after it signed.

Wesley Clark: Serbs stubbornly refused.

Blendi Fevziu: At that time you asked Hashim Thaci if he could protect the KLA within Kosovo and he replied: “Po”. Did you believe that?

Wesley Clark: The wish was so, but; How could the KLA immediately create a force to protect the population? They tried? Yeah. And in fact, several thousand Albanians have come from the United States, Canada to reinforce KLA, to help the people. But it happened so fast, before we knew it. One and a half million Kosovars left the country. 900 thousand came to Albania and possibly Macedonia. And maybe 500 grand lived in the mountains.

Blendi Fevziu: From a belligerent point of view, what was the secret to KLA success?

Wesley Clark: The KLA has played a very important function. They have exerted ground pressure that limited the air campaign. The only thing Milosevic, an armed force of Albanians, did not want to face. He knew that force, supported by the NATO Air Force, would destroy the Serbian Army. In the first week of June, as they began to advance, I was able to request air support, we dropped the bombs. They seriously damaged Serbs. Serbian Land Forces were violated there. Milosevic saw that he could not win, could retain the territory, win politically. But one of the biggest damage to Milosevic; He was charged by the International Criminal Court. She really did.

Blendi Fevziu: Yes, before the end of the war.

Wesley Clark: After being accused by the International Court as a war criminal, what diplomat would talk to him? It was against the law and a meeting with him. Milosevic has always believed in himself more than needed. He always believed that he could maneuver European diplomats, do what he wanted by cleverly using his body language, his words. He spoke English very fluently. He was really a smart, manipulative mob leader.

Blendi Fevziu: Is it normal?

Wesley Clark: Yeah, yeah. He made a big mistake.

Blendi Fevziu: You said Hashim Thaci at that meeting was your son's age at the time. Do you believe they were too enthusiastic about the future of the country?

Wesley Clark: Many were enthusiastic, too determined. You can't create a new country unless you're ready to fight and die for it. In Syria in 2010, 2011, 12 or 2013... I have met on occasion with leaders of the Syrian opposition. They didn't get into Syria. People fought inside Syria, but they didn't. I told them at the time Alija Izetbegovic would never have held Bosnia together had he not stayed in Sarajevo. If you're a political leader, you should be there, where the conflict is. You can stay in Paris, eating cappuccino-drinking crustaceans and being able to command what happens. They just didn't go, didn't risk it. As a result, Harald is in power.

Blendi Fevziu: Have you had special units within Yugoslavia's territory during the war, within Kosovo territory?

Wesley Clark:

Blendi Fevziu: Thaci with the gun.

Wesley Clark: Yeah, but I don't know if he really fought. They tell me he was more of a political leader.

Blendi Fevziu: So you had units within Kosovo territory?

Wesley Clark: It was romantically imagined that there were earthly forces, spies, but no.

Blendi Fevziu: Why did the war last so long? Weather, diplomacy, any problems?

Wesley Clark: It wasn't a fight by American standards. If we wanted to have a real war, we would have brought troops, started air strikes, and everything would be over in a week or so. It would have been a bitter battle, but with a lot of losses, many killed. But we never intended to conquer Serbia. We just wanted to end the Kosovo conflict. Milosevic had only to accept NATO peacekeepers. Rather, he began ethnic cleansing of Albanians. It was a terrible mistake. They used the army, surrounded the village, brought in special police, arrested and killed people. They stole, raped, and things like that. It was an organized system, and when it started in the second week of Mars, we had to evacuate diplomats. I think it happened on March 19th. It was because they were crazy. They attacked civilians. Did NATO want to drop the bombs? Of course not. We do not want to kill people and start the war, but we cannot allow another episode of ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. It took us years to stop him in Bosnia. We were mostly successful, but here we go again. No way! NATO joined, and after the second day it became clear that Milosevic had no intention of canceling the campaign. I went to see Secretary Solana on Sunday evening, after the 4th night of the bombing. I told him we should scale military blows against Milosevic.

Blendi Fevziu: Did you mean the ground forces?

Wesley Clark: No, we would shoot targets in Belgrade. He told me; Promise me if we attack targets in Belgrade, is it over? I didn't promise you that, but I promise if we don't, it'll never end. Okay, he told me to bring in the targets and that's how escalation started. It was a strategy that I had developed in my mind 20 years ago, it was a strategy we call “Dominating escalation”. In other words, the real objective of the campaign was Slobodan Milosevic's mind. If you convince him that he will never win, he will stop the war.

Blendi Fevziu: Who decided the targets on Earth? Military or political forces?

Wesley Clark: All NATO goals were approved by NATO political leaders. Yeah, before they got shot.

Blendi Fevziu: Bombing the Chinese embassy at the time was a huge mistake. Was it a mistake made by NATO or did the information come wrong from the beginning?

Wesley Clark: It was a mistake made by the U.S. government that provided us as a target. It was an all-out attack. Every target was on a piece of paper. Image, description, collateral damage, civilians that can be hurt. This target was listed as a Yugoslav arms export agency. He gave the view of the building and the order of the warehouses, and when we saw it, we said perhaps those warehouses that were coming out of it collected weapons before starting overseas. It looked like a target that matched. He came along with other targets and I took him to the White House personally for approval. They told me, yes, go ahead.

Blendi Fevziu: Have you had any problems after that bombing?

Wesley Clark: A mistake clearly occurred, but the question was raised as to how and what the consequences were. My intelligence officer said: Sir, my responsibility was to prepare my targets and now request permission to resign. I told him he wouldn't resign because he didn't bring that target right back to the start. How did you know she wasn't a Yugoslav export agency? It's true, he said. Well, you're not gonna quit. Then the Secretary of Defense and the CIA leader apologized because it was Washington's mistake.

Blendi Fevziu: During the NATO Summit, we return to ground troops. There's been a long discussion of this. Bill Clinton and Tony Blair have had a long discussion about using ground troops. Bill Clinton has said General Clarke can use ground troops to conquer Yugoslavia from Albania, Macedonia and even Hungary. Why didn't you use those earthly forces? Were you ready for permission?

Wesley Clark: But ground forces would cause a huge destruction. The whole idea was to persuade Milosevic to surrender because he had no choice. During the summit, no “ground patrols” were mentioned, but we said NATO would do what was needed. So, in other words, we continued to influence Milosevic's mind. Then we planned how to get ground troops in. The plan was to introduce some from Albania, some from Macedonia and some from Hungary. And he would not have stopped until we could defeat him, invade Yugoslavia and Serbia if Milosevic did not surrender. At the same time, we start a certain secret diplomacy with Milosevic to convince him. He could be stubborn with his drinking and cigarette in his hand and perhaps not understanding the reality. This proposal was to be made by the president and vice president of Russia. They'd say: President Milosevic, you will never defeat NATO, you will never win. You'll never get that.

Blendi Fevziu: It was the first war for NATO after 50 years. You have also bombed Milosevic's bunker in downtown Belgrade at the time

Wesley Clark: Yes, we also did it because it served as a headquarters, there were many antennaes. That's what's really interesting about him. A few days later I was in Bulgaria meeting with the president there. He told me. Information has come to us that some of the Serbian people are glad you bombed Milosevic's house. <

Blendi Fevziu: Yeah, interesting. On the other hand, Albania has been open to you, ports, airplanes, everything. Was infrastructure in Albania appropriate to move troops from ports north?

Wesley Clark:< First, I am very grateful to the Albanian leadership for opening their country at the time, Prime Minister Nano, Defence Minister Ilir Meta... They hosted our Apache helicopters at Rinnas Airport, the air force there. It rained, mud, dark. Some helicopters flew into the mountains and fell. Those same helicopters were a major threat to Milosevic. If they had gone in, they would have seriously damaged his military force. If they were shot, they'd be chased by ground troops. So they were still an important force to persuade Milosevic to surrender. Although we actually never crossed the border with them.

Blendi Fevziu: He was surrounded by the time the Russians told him to stop right now. A meeting was held with him when he was told that the Russians no longer supported you and that you have to find a solution. What happened to the Russian army that entered Pristina airport from Bosnia?

Wesley Clark: Yeah, it was a Russian secret operation I believe was run by Vladimir Putin. He has in fact never publicly accepted this. But if he had succeeded, he would have earned the credit. He took Russian troops and tanks out of Bosnia. And after they stopped fighting and Security Council resolution authorized NATO introduced, Russia rejected the resolution and took the highway through Belgrade, towards Pristina airport. At 1: 00 a.m. they arrived at the airport. NATO came next afternoon and had a bit of a cramp. But then there were three Russian alert regiments coming for reinforcements to get Mitrovica, occupied Pristina. We didn't know. But we knew that we should be ready if they came. Is it true you ordered Mike Jackson to go back? I told Michael Jackson to think about a highway jam, but he said he couldn't do it. Michael Jackson was exhausted, worked day and night, was emotionally affected, and feared that World War III would begin. But the truth is the Russians were wrong, we surrounded them in the airfield and eventually we just had to keep them under control and stop the reinforcements. The reinforcements prevented Bulgaria and Romania's courage. No, you can't cross our countries. That Sunday afternoon, when intelligence continued to show the Russians preparing for entry and, of course, decisions were made in Russia, my Air Force commander called me and said: Boss, do you want us to shoot those Russian forces if they're breaking air space? He was able to do it? Yeah, but it was a very hot political issue and we called Washington. We were getting ready for a teleconference to decide whether we should shoot those Russian forces or not, but the Russians decided then not to go in.

Blendi Fevziu: And the problem is solved. General, you were the only military leader of a war that was won without ground troops. Isn't that weird?

Wesley Clark: The reason we won without ground troops was the fact that I was lucky to understand the enemy and knew that the enemy was not the Serb army, but President Milosevic. He had to be convinced that he had lost that war. He was a type of lawyer, a Mafia leader. Once he realized he had lost that war, he wiped his hands.

Blendi Fevziu: Is it true that General Preshic told General Nauman that he is destroying our army? Milosevic was destroying the Yugoslav Army?

Wesley Clark: Yeah, that's right. The Yugoslav Army has followed his instructions, but they also knew Milosevic's actions were wrong. And to what extent has the Yugoslav Army been destroyed? That's the question. If we talk to people, after the ban on shelling, hundreds of Serb vehicles have been withdrawn and Serbs have then carried out a misinformation campaign, saying NATO has not hit any of the targets. The truth is that we have destroyed a third of the Serbian Army only from air strikes.

Blendy Fevziu: General, at least twice you've been in difficult situations, in Vietnam, where you got injured, and during the incident that killed Robert Frazer in Bosnia. How have you experienced these two moments?

Wesley Clark: Basically, if you're a military leader, you have to train in peacetime to do what's required in times of war. If you have been properly trained, with the right attitude and courage, moral and physical, you have an opportunity to succeed.

Blendi Fevziu: You were very young in Vientman, I think. 25-26.

There are no guarantees in war. The lesson I've learned from life is: Try not to go to war. War has no glory, no honour, no end. Innocent people will always be killed, made mistakes, and if it's possible to solve problems without war, don't fight. Don't kill people, let diplomats argue because they really want to. Let them debate. But do not allow them to give up the debate quickly. I understand that in Kosovo. In early Mars, I had breakfast with Madlyn Ollbrate and she said: Serbs will not sign the agreement. They threaten to kill civilians. They'll kill you. What will NATO do? NATO has pledged to strike if Serbs fail to comply and stop the killings. NATO can't back down. Are they killing you civilians? We're gonna have to bomb harder. Of course, we couldn't have known in advance whether it would end in a day, two days, 15 days, or so. We had to break up Milosevic, his will to resist and we succeeded.

Blendi Fevziu: What were your connections to President Clinton at the time?

Wesley Clark: But he was the commander, the one who gave the order to begin.

Blendi Fevziu: You've had friends before.

Wesley Clark: No, actually. He just believed I would do the right thing.

Blendi Fevziu:

Wesley Clark: From an early age, I have realized that the Soviet Union was a threat to world peace, they have the H (or hydrogen) bomb. Nikita Krusov, the Soviet leader, came to the US and said: We'll bury you, Americans! Then there was a crisis in Berlin in 1961, and I wanted to do something for my country. I could have become a physicist, an engineer, but in my soul I was a patriot and wanted to serve the people. After gaining military skills, I realized that I could actually do much for my country, serving in the military, and doing it. I'm so grateful. But now I've had that uniform removed for almost 21 years, and I've had a wonderful career in business, I still give talks and lectures at the university. I'm involved in business, finance, technology, communication, medicine. Probably. Democratic society needs to be protected by people like Milosevic. It takes smart people, courageously, and engaged in uniforms, but they don't have to stay in that uniform all their life. It takes clever, courageous, and busy people in business. Now that I have returned to Albania after 22 years, I see Tirana, it seems to me completely another town. A spirit of greatness was born in this land. I'm very impressed.

Blendi Fevziu: Thank you very much, General. Thank you for the interview, but most of all for what you have done for our country and our people. Thank you very much.