What Paddy Ashdown said about the Ahtisaari Plan in 2007

The following is Ashdown's view of this plan.

On the eve of the Vienna summit for negotiations on the plan proposed by Martti Ahtisaari for Kosovo's status, British Lord Paddy Ashdown, former top international representative in Bosnia, praises the Ahtisaari document to the BBC, saying it offers something to all.

Majlinda Zeqiri spoke to Lord Ashdown and first asked what life now seems to look like outside Balkan politics?

AshdownI am happy to be back in my country, happy to be with my family, my children and grandchildren, but my wife and I miss the Balkans.

Actually, I'm going back there to register a BBC-titled programme, “peace settlement after conflict”. I'll be back in early March in my beloved Bosnia.

BBCLord Ashdown, you just mentioned Bosnia. You were there as the top international representative during 2002-2006, in a country consisting of three different ethnicities. Do you think the Dayton Agreement has worked and functions in Bosnia?

AshdownYeah, but it just needs to first determine what we might call success, but if you define success as something that saved a country from conflict, the worst war at the end of the last century, and the fact that it prevented conflict return, I can say that this has been a phenomenal success.

I think Bosnia and Herzegovina has made progress towards peace in the past 10 years since Dayton arrived, compared to any other country I know. More than northern Ireland in 35 years.

And if you remember where that place came from, with two million people out of the country, maybe about a quarter of a million people killed, and 10 years later, a million people return to their homes, when you have free human movements, unlike Cyprus, free and fair and peaceful elections, unlike the Basks in Spain... so it's a tremendous progress.

The problem is that Dayton was good for the first ten years, with the task of stabilising the post-conflict situation, but now it is a certain obstacle to the second phase -- that of Bosnia's progress towards EU membership, which is state building. Therefore, we need the Dayton amendment and reform of the constitution.

BBCLord Ashdown, when it comes to Dayton, there were many who criticized him and there were those who said that you, as head of internationals there, had a lot of power. Some even said you were the king of Bosnia. How would you react to criticism? Do you think it was right to have so much power?

AshdownYeah. I think so. It was part of the Dayton Agreement. It was the legal basis for our power. When the Dayton Accord was reached, all three sides -- but also Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro -- agreed to have high representatives with such powers. That was part of the deal and the legal basis.

I think there were things there that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the High Representative, because without it there would be no license plates, no joint currency, no postage stamps. The plates were too important to ensure people's free movement.

But my view is that if this was important for the first phase of post-war stabilisation, for the first 10 years, and as a result of this, there are remarkable achievements, this is not enough for the second phase.

So I am now happy that the international community has decided to make phased withdrawals, not as soon as I would like. The rest of Bosnia and Herzegovina's progress as a state will take place within the EU Stabilisation and Association Agreement, rather than within the Dayton Agreement.

BBCLord Ashdown, you said Dayton was important for the first 10 years, but not later. Returning to Kosovo, Ahtisaari's plan, as many say, rests on Dayton for various points. So, at the top of Kosovo, among other things, it will be an international one that will have numerous powers like you. Is that right?

Ashdown The UN Secretary General's special representative, who was part of the Kosovo peace plan in 1999, had more power than I did. He ran a protectorate. While I was a senior representative dealing with parliament, I dealt with Bosnia's democratic structures.

I would say it would be a mistake to say that if it is the case that Ahtisaari will propose to have a high representative as in Bosnia, he would have more powers than the UN secretary-general's special representative.

The latter had more power. All nations, including major nations that have had conflicts like Germany and Japan, go through a period of democratic tutoring. Doesn't make them less democratic.

Germany, for example, had an Allied commission that helped them from war to full democracy for eight years. Austria had it for 10 years. Japan for 7-8 years. These are not unusual things when a nation has to do extraordinary things during transition from war and war horrors to a sustainable democracy.

I think that's a fair view and I approve his plan. My only concern is why it didn't happen earlier. I wanted people to understand that Belgrade was no longer entitled to Kosovo, where Serbs constitute only 5% of the population. They lost it morally during the war. That should have been said in 99, not in 2007.

BBCAs for the Ahtisaari plan, as an experienced person. Did they ask you to give your help?

Ashdown As for if my friends have repeatedly asked me for my opinion, this is my private matter, not my transmission.

BBC After the recent protest in Kosovo where two people lost their lives, it seems even some Albanians have reservations to the Ahtisaari plan. What would you do if you were in the country of internationals not to have such frustrations?

AshdownIt's in the nature of peace deals that have to be compromised. No one fully agrees with them, so they are compromises. Not all agreed on Dayton, but that was the best thing that could be achieved. But I won't tell you what I would have done because I don't believe in that if I were in another person's place.

It was very difficult to do this on its own in Bosnia when my ancestors were in Bosnia and I will not do that for Kosovo.

But I want to say this: And I talk about my Albanian friends there. I've been very involved in Kosovo before, during and after the war. It's natural that there's some sort of concern because they don't get everything they want, but if it's better than what they've been doing so far, and if it takes a long time to get what you want, then you have to support it.

What Belgrade wants more than anything at the moment is for Kosovo Albanians to start protests, create chaos, create a lack of stability, then Belgrade will say where you are, the international community, we have told you that they cannot have the independence you talk about.

Those who are trying to create chaos in Kosovo are playing in Belgrade's hands, and they should not do so.

BBC Most Albanians, authorities there, support Ahtisaari's plans. In Vienna, there are talks, Serbs are in Vienna against Ahtisaari's plan. The Serbian Parliament completely rejected Ahtisaari's plan by vote. Do you think Ahtisaari will achieve anything in Vienna knowing that the parties still come from different positions entirely?

AshdownWhen you sit at the negotiating table, the parties come with different views. That's why we're negotiating. The question is whether you compromise.

I think there's something there for everyone. It is the possibility of eventual independence for Kosovo... there are regions that are highly decentralised autonomous within Kosovo for Serbs. No one can take anything you ask. But there's something in it for everyone.

I think Belgrade should understand, I actually think they understand, except for those dark depths of Mr. Kostunica's office and two or three people who want to live in the past and not in the future, that Kosovo is no longer part of them.

We all understand the importance of Pec, we all understand the importance of monasteries. But the reality is that Serbia's progress in a single future that it can have, which is a future in Europe, as a proud nation, as a major Serb nation, as an EU member, is achieved by building Serbia and not by returning back to Kosovo.

BBC Your experience. How long will it take for them to agree?

AshdownI can't say. It takes a long time to build peace after the war. We know that it took us 35 years to build peace in Northern Ireland. I marched into Belfast as a new Marine in 1969 and if I asked how long it would take and they would tell me 35 years, I wouldn't believe it.

But what is certain is that no matter how hard it may be, no matter how costly it may be, it is still less costly, less painful, than turning into conflict.

BBCIf the international community asks you to go and be at the helm of the international presence in Kosovo, will you do so?

Ashdown I'd rather talk to my wife about it.

BBC Lord Ashdown. Karadzic and Mladic have not yet been arrested to be sent to The Hague. NATO again conducted a raid, this time at the home of Karadzic's children without finding anything. Is it so hard to arrest Karadzic or is it all NATO's game, as some say?

AshdownAsk the world's largest country to capture Osama bin Laden, who controls every piece of land in Afghanistan and is still doing nothing.

It's very hard to catch a single person moving through a wild mountainous territory, among a population that is pathetic but supports it. Military is a very difficult task. We did much when we were there, arrested many war criminals and transferred The Hague indictees to The Hague, and now only 4 people -- two generals and Karadzic and Mladic -- remain.

This job isn't over until it's done. No one should underestimate how difficult it is. But let me explain something to you: There can be no peace without justice. There can be no peace in Bosnia and Herzegovina without arresting the architects of the war in Bosnia, and without this becoming the job is not over.

BBC What about speculation, that arrests are not being carried out for Serbs to make concessions for Ahtisaari's plan?

Ashdown) I don't think there's anything real about it. Even when I was there, I heard this country won't catch, or this country doesn't want to catch, that if Karadzic comes out to The Hague this would be a shame for France or Berlin.

What I can tell you is that when I was there, there was no single proof of that. NATO is fully engaged. Indeed, it is a kind of resentment match to ensure that Karadzic and Mladic go where they should.

But, with my heart I say that the renegate authorities, in Serbia and security networks in Serbia, the military and secret services if they wanted Karadzic, could arrest him.

I think Karadzic is in Montenegro or eastern Bosnia and I doubt the Orthodox Church has a hand in its defence. I am telling you directly that Serbs must understand that until they hand over Karadzic and Mladic, their path to Europe has been blocked.

The international community, the authorities of Bosnia and Serbia and the Orthodox Church must understand that until Karadzic, the Bosnian, Montenegro road, the Balkans for peace and EU membership is blocked and must be clearly understood how soon this is done, the better it will be.