Daciq: Kosovo legally unable to sue Serbia for genocide

Of all these topics, Dacic has also spoken of the indictment warned by the Kosovo government of genocide against Serbia.

He said legally, such an indictment is impossible.

I think, first of all, this is legally impossible. Kosovo cannot be filed as an indictment, because it is not an internationally recognised state. It was not an internationally recognised state at the time either. But in general, I don't know what such ideas can bring, because here everyone can sue someone else for something”, Dachic said.

Total interview:

Deutsche Welle: What would you give up if you could?

Daciq: I wouldn't give up anything. Why should I regret that? That was life. We have studied at the time of the destruction of the one-party system and the destruction of Yugoslavia.

DW: Don't you regret even being in Milosevic's party?

Daciq: Listen, as you know, it has been the time to turn the Communist League into the Socialist Party of Serbia.

DW: Well, you don't regret it. Now we're talking in Berlin, where these days you've met with the mayor of Bundestag, Wolfgang Schäuble and several deputies. How do you assess Germany-Serbia diplomatic and economic reports?

Daciq: Germany has become Serbia's first partner in foreign trade, and I can say that Germany's perception and our bilateral relations have changed much in the past ten years. And this is primarily the result of improving relations between people who run these two countries, who have created communication between them and have developed personal relationships, which has certainly helped to highlight some positive themes, not just negative themes in our relationships. So today I can gladly say that Germany is the number one in the economy when it comes to relations. We only have an exchange of 5.3 billion euros in foreign trade over the past year. Likewise, they are large donors and are among the biggest investors. There are about 400 German companies in Serbia, which employ more than 70,000 people, and our goal is to reach the number of 100,000 employees. And, which is also good, most of these companies are positively expressed for their work in Serbia. That's very good. Politically, I think we are aware that Germany is the number one country in Europe, despite the fact that Serbs, for their historic reasons, may have more sympathy for France. But, of course, the economic and political power at this time is even more in Berlin than in Paris.

DW: You have met in Berlin with the chairman of the Schäuble Bundestag and some deputies, I know that President Vuciq has frequent contacts with Chancellor Angela Merkel. So you might say you have good diplomatic and economic reports. But there is also a subject where you differ very much, and this is the question of Kosovo and the recognition of the Republic of Kosovo. You don't know him, while Germany not only recognises him, but is one of the countries that insist on normalising the reports between Kosovo and Serbia. How much does this fact bother you in your Berlin reports?

Daciq: We today (at our meeting with Schäuble on June 25th in Berlin) have not taken too much on this issue. We know where the differences are between us. Of course we know how they think, we know what their demand to move forward is, we know that they want Serbia to recognise Kosovo's independence. On the other hand, our policy is very clear: we want political solutions, we want compromise. The demand for recognition of independence is not compromise, it is the party's request in Pristina. But at this meeting we have not touched this subject. We've talked about our reports, bilateral reports. I have been asked, for example, what I think of northern Macedonia, for Albania, why they did not get the green light for starting EU membership negotiations. Germany is interested in the entire region. I have to say they demand that the negotiation process be accelerated. But that's not how everyone thinks. Schäuble told me that he personally spoke even a few years ago and has asked France to accept that the Balkans be given green light in the process for membership, but France has not been very cooperative in the matter.

DW: With this issue perhaps not much has been taken to these meetings, but the issue of all issues is recognition of Kosovo, because you know that even speeding up Serbia's rapprochement with the EU is conditioned with Kosovo recognition, respectively, with normalisation of reports with Kosovo. While you in Serbia are talking about a compromise all the time. What does compromise mean?

Daciq: See, compromise means something that is in the interest of both sides. Is this compromise possible I don't know?

DW: Didn't you answer what compromise is? What does it mean?

Daciq: Why do you think Serbia should propose any compromise?

DW: But who should propose it?

Daciq: We now have a situation where the case is still open. This means that the Kosovo status issue is unresolved, despite the fact that Kosovo thinks the issue has been resolved. It has not been resolved until Kosovo is admitted to the United Nations. On the other hand, the situation on the ground -- what Americans often like to say -- is such that, despite the fact that 99 percent of Serbs would say Kosovo is part of Serbia, Serbia does not have full sovereignty in Pristina. But neither does Pristina have full sovereignty in northern Kosovo. This is the situation on the ground. Can this situation be changed on the ground other than war? Could it be changed, for example, by compromise? That's possible. Better to compromise than to try something else.

DW: What exactly does this mean, what is compromise?

Daciq: Compromise for me is the real situation on the ground.

DW: Does this mean that you commit yourselves to partitioning Kosovo or to exchanging territories?

Daciq: But why are you asking me this now, when you know what I said more than ten years ago...

DW: I know what you said, but you have the right to change your mind.

Daciq: Why change it? If you haven't changed your mind, neither have I.

DW: I'm a journalist and I don't change my mind often.

Daciq: Okay, okay...

DW: So, what do you think about partitioning Kosovo?

Daciq: If I don't think anything, I just want to say that all should be part of the deal. Now we have a situation, when it comes to Kosovo, thought only in recognising Kosovo's independence. But it doesn't have to be. Is there someone who proposes any solution that would represent a compromise of interests both Serbian and Albanian. For now, nobody wants to deal with this, nobody wants to take responsibility. And this is about normalizing relationships. I know because I was involved in the dialogue, when it was 2012 and 2013...

DW: Dialogue started in October 2012, and the agreement was signed in 2013...

Daciq: Yes, but some of the things that Stefan Füle has invented have been introduced into the EU documents later. He has discovered this term í, as it says, “judicial agreement binding on normalising reports“. I remember just asking: What does that mean?

DW: Does that mean maybe mutual recognition between these two countries?

Daciq: No, it doesn't. Where does it say that? Füle explained to me that the meaning is much broader. So she told me then that it's such a broad formula that anyone can interpret it in their own way, the way it fits. And now when someone talks about the agreement, it says the agreement should mean mutual recognition. First, what does the “mutual recognition” mean? Wait, do you really think Serbia needs recognition from Kosovo? This is ridiculous.

DW: Will Serbia recognise Kosovo as a state at some point?

Daciq: We will not recognise any unilateral solutions. We just want to talk, continue dialogue. I repeat: It is acceptable to me everything that implies any compromise involving the interests of both sides. But now you're asking me something I'm not involved with.

DW: You were prime minister, and now you're the speaker of the Parliament, so you're part of all the process.

Daciq: But what I think does not necessarily mean is important.

DW: You were at the head of the delegation that started dialogue on Kosovo in 2012, as then prime minister. And since then, Mr. Dachic, a case has been repeatedly mentioned as the case of missing persons. Why haven't you found the found?

Daciq: Wait a minute, let me just say this after you asked me about the deal. I've met Thaci back then and signed the Brussels Agreement, and now Kurti says it's not worth it. He says that no government before him was a real government. So there's a time before Kurt and after Kurt.

DW: Kurti has said he will review all signed agreements and then decide what will be done with them. But let's go back to the case of the dead...

Daciq: I heard here in Berlin that they are disappointed with his stand (Curt). But continue... As for missing persons: I completely agree that missing persons should have priority. But it is not just the matter of losing Albanians. This is also about missing Serb persons in Kosovo.

DW: Of course, there are undiscovered Serbs. But why this issue has not been resolved until now, because you have been prime minister, interior minister, you have been part of the dialogue. Why didn't you separate this issue from dialogue, as a civilizing, human issue?

Daciq: I absolutely think this matter should be resolved. But I don't know why you think politicians have that responsibility. There was nothing in Serbia, as far as I know, that is forbidden for anyone to ask or that someone in Serbia is ordered not to do anything. I know there are remarks from other countries, but we also have our remarks to Pristina and some others. We've given you the list of places where they have to look for the missing people there, but they don't want to. So I agree that this issue will be resolved. A few years ago we also adopted several resolutions on this issue to separate this from political issues. The issue of the undiscovered is certainly a topic to pay attention to.

DW: Undiscovered in Kosovo are more than 1,600. Of them about 400 are Serbs, others are Albanians. And someone in politics, or even outside politics, is hiding the data about these people. So people certainly don't have understanding about these things.

Daciq: I don't know the exact data, how many people are gone, but I'm repeating it again: Serbia will do anything to find them. They can call. Anyone who thinks Serbia has certain dishonest intentions in this direction can always intervene, and I'm sure Serbia has nothing to hide. If we have discovered the bodies (in the mass cemetery) in Batajnica near Belgrade, then what is our interest in clouding other things. But here we have another situation, we have proposed that troops be sought at five locations in Kosovo, but this has not been accepted.

DW: I sincerely hope the fate of all the found. Let's go now to another question of war crimes charges. How do you see the process and the indictment against Thaci, Veselin, Selimi and Krasniqi in The Hague?

Daciq: I really don't know that. I don't even know why I have to get involved in these things. I think, this is the result of the failure of The Hague's Tribunal, because he has not prosecuted those who committed crimes against Serbs. The Tribunal has not been taken seriously on this issue. It has happened, for example, that Oriqi will be released to free Croatian generals, free Haradinaj because there were no longer any living witnesses. Then came the question of Dick Marty's report, a member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. Then it was decided to establish these rooms. As for Serbia, we have been in favour of prosecuting all those who committed crimes, on the part of The Hague Tribunal. All I can say is, all those responsible have to answer.

DW: You mentioned Dick Marty's report, certainly you know that in the indictment against these four people, there is no word about the extraction and sale of Serb organs, which has been the main cause of the establishment of the Special Court.

Daciq: There should be.

DW: Do you have any leads on these allegations?

Daciq: It's not me, but it's Dick Marty.

DW: Seen by facts so far, the Special Court prosecution has found nothing. While you have long ago, in an interview for Serbian media, you have claimed that rape numbers have even swollen in Kosovo. On what do you base those doubts?

Daciq: Listen, I haven't said this by personal obedience, but I've spoken on the basis of data we've received from Kosovo authorities. So from Pristina, which has called on public to report raped persons. So here we have more political stories, according to the motto: “I think there were so many people who were raped”. Even if there was only one rape, it's a crime. But it is not the same when it is said that 500, 600 or a thousand people were raped or 20,000 people were raped. That's a big change.

DW: I think there's a lot of data on this case, but maybe they haven't been published.

Daciq: Look, we don't have any problem with this. We have no problem prosecuting Serbs who committed crimes. But here we have another problem: How is it possible not to hold any process for crimes against Serbs?

DW: That's not true. Dozens of cases of crimes against Serbs have been held in Kosovo alone. The processes are also held at The Hague, but the fact is there have been few convicts.

Daciq: That's what I'm talking about. What a connection is there between an indictment or not when accused people are not punished. No one is condemned, and this creates conviction that justice is not objective.

DW: Mr. Dachyq, do you feel responsible? You were in different functions at the time of the former Yugoslavia's destruction, that's when the crimes were committed. You were the Socialist Party's spokesman. While Mr. Vuciq has been minister of information at the time of the Kosovo war. Do you feel any responsibility for what happened?

Daciq: Listen, when those in the KLA don't feel guilty, why should I feel guilty? I was a politician, just like Vucin. I wasn't on the front. I didn't do anything wrong, I didn't do anything bad to anybody. The estimates may be different, while for my work evaluations can only be made in elections, and we lost the 2000 elections.

DW: What do you think of the indictment warned by Mr. Kurti about genocide against Serbia?

Daciq: I think, first of all, this is legally impossible. Kosovo cannot be filed as an indictment, because it is not an internationally recognised state. It was not an internationally recognised state at the time either. But in general, I don't know what such ideas can bring, because here everyone can sue someone else for something.

DW: Montenegro's Parliament has adopted a resolution with which genocide is condemned in Srebrenica these days. As speaker of Serbia's Parliament, will you initiate a similar outcome, because this affects the reports between Serbia and B-H?

Daciq: Serbia has adopted a resolution on this issue in 2010 and now does not need to issue anything new. The resolution has agreed with Turkey and Bosnia and Herzegovina about the use of the term, and they have agreed not to use the term “genocide”. Why change that, I don't understand.

DW: What do you think of this genocide?

Daciq: I don't even want to get into what I think. I'm just saying that this issue has been resolved on Serbia's Parliament. Now you're making me go back to some things. If Croatia now says that Serbia should adopt a resolution on genocide before joining the EU, did Croatia also have to adopt a resolution on the genocide of Serbs in Jasenovac? Was this genocide done before it entered legal termology as a crime is not important, the essence is that genocide has become. As I said, every life is important. But the numbers are also important.

DW: Over 8,000 people have been killed in Srebrenica within two or three days.

Daciq: Yeah, but do you know how many were killed in other countries? Do you know how many thousands of people were killed, “the same day, with hundreds of students...”, these aren't genocides, are they? I'm just saying we've done our job.

DW: So you as speaker of Serbia's Parliament think this issue is closed?

Daciq: This case is over and closed. Everything else is just political manipulation on this subject.

DW: When we talk about B-H reports, the issue of Serbia's relations with Republika Srpska always arises. And this issue is often mentioned in the context of Kosovo. Can there be any parallel between Kosovo's status and Republika Srpska, in your opinion?

Daciq: Why wouldn't there be? What do you Albanians think you have more rights to make your states than Serbs on the territory of other states?

DW: I'm a Deutsche Welle journalist...

Daciq: I know, and I didn't say that in a bad way, because we've known each other for a long time. But it is simply impossible for such a course to be legally protected as a stand. Why is it impossible? The Badinter Commission has found that Yugoslavia can be disbanded along republic's borders. If there was an exception, how can you say now that no one else has that right? It's fiction that Kosovo is a case of '%sui geniuses, just to make it easier for it to be swallowed up by others. And everyone thinks, it's only for Kosovo there, not for my country. Bosnians in Sarajevo, for example, say Kosovo can be free and independent. And when you tell them: “Why shouldn't Banja Luka” also be independent, they say: “Oh, this is not the same”. But why isn't it?

DW: So you think there can be parallels between Kosovo and Republika Srpska?

Daciq: Not only are there parallels, but life is like this. If someone says: The situation on the ground is such that Kosovo has declared independence and that the West should accept this, then I don't see why someone should oppose similar ideas elsewhere in the world. But we don't engage in that. We don't encourage this. But Bosniaks in Sarajevo cannot come and say, and now when Muslims are more than 51 per cent, then we will abolish Republika Srpska and create a unitary state.

DW: Bosnia and Herzegovina is recognised by the Dayton Agreement, as a state composed of two entities?

Daciq: It is, but they want to change it. They want to change and constantly demand the unitary of B-H entity removal, the removal of equality of peoples and everything else.

DW: What do you think of ideas for redefining borders in the Balkans?

Daciq: I haven't opened up these ideas.

DW: You haven't opened it yet, but maybe you have any thoughts?

Daciq: I have not been in favour of this idea, but with Kosovo's declaration of independence, borders have been redefined in the Balkans. This is the truth and it's a historical fact. Now you can't say, like when the kids play, someone takes something and says, "The game is over. That's not possible. We don't insist on changing borders, but there can be no one hypocritical and say, “now has no movement of borders”. And our border has been moved. Why didn't they say that before moving our border? Why didn't someone say: “There is no movement of Serbia's borders?” But to understand, I don't insist on that. We're talking about a deal, we're talking about peace. We're talking about a political solution. This will happen if a deal is reached. If there is no deal, there will be no deal.

DW: When we talk about peace and political agreements: How do you see relations between B-H, Serbia, Kosovo, northern Macedonia and the countries of the region in the future? Can there be any other agreement, or should we expect common EU membership?

Daciq: In general, we are for opening up the European perspective for all. I think that would be good. Will that happen? For example, people in Pristina can ask themselves: “How can those who favour Kosovo's independence not give them visa liberalisation?”

DW: What do you think about liberalisation?

Daciq: I think this is extremely hypocritical. Hold on, if you love Kosovo so much, why don't you allow visa liberalisation.

DW: Why aren't you asking that visas be liberalised for Kosovo, as a man born in Prizren?

Daciq: We keep busy. We wanted to get you into the EU and enable visa liberalisation as well. I have signed the document for citizens of Serbia's citizenship to enjoy liberalisation. But some of you have protested and do not allow people to travel with Serbia's passports. Do you know there are a large number of Albanians who have our passports?

DW: I know they have a lot of them.

Daciq: And that's pretty cool.

DW: Do you have the Kosovo passport?

Daciq: I don't have it. I don't know Kosovo's independence.

DW: I know Mr Thaci offered you this passport after you were born in Prizren.

Daciq: He didn't officially offer it to me, it was more just for the media... But I really think that our citizens should leave political topics for political discussion, and life should have the course of their normal lives.

DW: But you politicians are the ones who poisoned the peoples, both Serbian and Albanian, and now can't live as free peoples of this part of Europe, to live normally, without having to hate each other.

Daciq: You're not much better either.

DW: Journalists are thinking?

Daciq: Yeah, the reporters.

There's probably one. Thanks for the conversation.