Bernard-Henri Levy: How will we avoid the epidemic of despair?

It has been a year since, one of Europe's most renowned intellectuals, Bernard-Henri Levy, came to Athens and performed his monologue “in search of Europe”, at the Pallas Theatre. French inconsolastic philosophy revives the speech by tasking it with the refreshing power of competitive ideas.

Near the great and powerful, but at the same time a protector of the weak, he is a socialist against communism, a supporter of the West, the US and NATO, while he is also a close friend of freedom fighters in Bangladesh.

A fighter for humanistic principles, who diligently believes that all should protect the founding ideas of Western culture without any remorse, Levy spoke with Kathimerini about the fundamental changes that have been caused to peoples and societies throughout the globe, from this new era of pandemics, where we have entered in a sudden manner.

A billion people are now united in one spirit, living in quarantine and facing a sense of sadness, that a pandemic can cause suffering from hunger, wars, and death. What healing would you suggest for this collective state of the imprisoned mind?

Are you sure they're united in spirit? Are they not, rather, completely isolated, separated from each other and viewing each neighbour as a potential threat? Of course there is solidarity. Of course, these are wonderful doctors and nurses who put their lives in danger to protect ours. But as for the rest, we don't know... “united in isolation” is a real contradiction! And “united in quarantine” seems paradoxical and absurd! I'm not saying it's not necessary. I'm not an expert, I'm not a doctor, and I believe experts and doctors when they say it's necessary and we have to accept this new social distance. But let's not mix science and politics. I leave medicine to doctors, but I have some kind of logic and I don't accept illusion and pretend that “social interference” can mean and be a kind of “brotherly”...

Six months ago in a public debate in Greece, you have been strongly attacking Steve Bannon for his nationalism and nationalism. At “Emperor and Five Kings” you have warned of a US withdrawal from the world. Has this attraction contributed to our poor, delayed, self - injurer response? Has the “murt of populism” (to use one of your phrases) to the plague?

A pandemic is a pandemic. It's a natural phenomenon. It really does when I say <x0-natural” which, by the way, can make a little more modest ecologists and other climate change experts blaming “the man”, or “civilisation” or “There's no connection to anyone's withdrawal. And when we talk about this disease, we certainly need to get rid of this way of thinking, moral, and punishment. I'll do two points. First: One of the reasons the virus spreads is politics, not America's, but China's; it's the Chinese government that lied, punished whistlers there, censored journalists who wanted to warn the world and promote public opinion, etc.

Second: One reason why the disease is so violent is that all our democracies have sacrificed their public health care systems for decades. Arianna Huffington published a book several years ago about the collapse of American infrastructure, including hospitals. She was right. When I see the images of downtown New York, when I hear my American friends go to the supermarket with fear in their stomach, when I see that the most powerful country on Earth sometimes has no even chance of properly honoring the dead, my heart faints, yes; but I can't imagine, there's something rotten in George Washington State, Abraham Lincoln and John Fitzgerald Kennedy. And that, sadly, comes from long ago! It's not just a recent evolution! And there's very little to do, unfortunately, with Trump and so on...

Western democracy has difficulty breathing. Is the Corleone “king of the Six x1>? Is that, “King” more dangerous than the Soviet threat? If social control and restrictions on rights are necessary to cope with pandemics, is China ready to export to the west, along with much needed respiratories, even its system of government, based on collective domination over the individual?

No, no, no. Of course not a <x0d”; not a “volunture” of any kind; and that's why, by the way, I don't feel comfortable with the rhetoric of “war”. Coronavirus is not a “armic”; it is just a thick brainless virus that will eventually disappear from a vaccine. Second: Of course not a Soviet threat; there is no way to compare this with any deceptive, totalitarian or terrorist powers; and again, we will be victorious against this disease, much easier than we have done against the Soviet Union. And third: China will surely export respiratories and masks; no doubt they will benefit against US and Europeans are in this tragic situation; but I can never imagine exporting their system of government! For Greece (and democracy), for France (source of Enlightenment), America (still the world's largest liberal society) would be a loss, a disaster, and a humiliation.

As an intellectual who has been deeply involved in the phenomenon of power, do you trust powerful people to receive special powers, without the side effect of developing a tendency to limit rights whenever opportunity is given? If the new “virus”, improved digital monitoring and social control, infect and colonize “polis”, how will citizens, fearful and helpless under current circumstances, fight back and retake their fundamental rights?

The real problem is fear, you're right. Fear certainly is normal. Of course, we all have friends and relatives who have been affected by the virus. But irrational fear should not be the answer. The irrationality moves us to accept any kind of solution. Irrational means being willing to sacrifice all rights in order to save the illusion of a guarantee not to die. Irrational means to think that nothing matters, nothing matters except breathing. This is what Alexander Coyette, Hegel's great commentator, called animal life at the end of history, compared with real human life in real history. This is what you Greeks meant when you opposed “eusine” (good life, organic life mixed with value, ethics and etc) and “zein”, or simply live, like plant or fish. But again, we must be careful. I won't say, as you do, “the men in power”. I wouldn't put everyone in the same bag. There are those like Victor Orban in Hungary who clearly seizes this opportunity and postpones its nonliberal agenda. And you have others, in France, in the United Kingdom, or elsewhere, who certainly don't have the same purpose: the rights and freedoms that they suspend at some point, we will return if we want.

Power robs citizens of the fundamental right to fight the disease. Then they are deprived of economic rights, as the battle against illness leads to capital destruction. If “the disease of populism” led us to the true plague, would the true plague lead us to more inequality, and more populism? How are we gonna ruin this vicious circle?

For now, we have. Most countries acted properly, cleverly and even courageously, avoiding the major mistakes of 1929. Central banks played their part. International institutions, too. And unions I mean workers also played the young one. Now, states will not be able to throw money with helicopters indefinitely and without borders. At some point, they'll have to stop. And the economy will have to resume. How will health care systems be rebuilt without the economy? In a world of unemployment, how will we avoid an epidemic of despair? That's the question now, not to mention the cursed and the poor of the earth, who were just getting out of lack of development and poverty, and who could be buried again in a desert of misery, hunger and... other pestilences! I just got back from Bangladesh. A country very dear to my heart since I was there 49 years ago, with their freedom fighters during the liberation war. So many pestilences are destroying the country. Starting with the plague of poverty and climate change...

Throughout history, epidemics have preceded the decline of great ones. The plague in ancient Athens led to the Athens collapse. Justinian's plague contributed to the fall of Byzantium. Do you doubt that the age of pandemic inevitably leads to a new world order?

If the West closes within its borders and barricades, yes. The real danger, now, is this one. It'd be like saying <x0... goodbye to the world” It would be like leaving our cultural influence to actors like China or India. And it would be the door closing. If we view this pandemic as a new pretext for withdrawal, then yes, it will be a marked date in the long history of our fall. / It's the last time I saw you.