Thaci and Vucinq know that borders do not change, but that is their goal

DW: Juratovic, talks between Serbia and Kosovo appear to be stuck, following proposals coming from Vuciq and Thaci for border change.

Josip Juratovic: That these talks are stuck in the country, that doesn't surprise me at all. It was clear from the beginning that the proposal for changing borders was an initiative that would not be implemented. The actors who proposed it also knew, but they wanted to make an impression that they were looking for solutions.

DW: Miss Merkel have criticised Vuciqi's proposal for changing the border, what is the position of your parliamentary group?

We think alike. We're not about changing borders in Europe, because the consequences would be fatal. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, some are now enjoying border changes. Macedonia too could be in danger, and if it were a legitimate act, the question of what would happen to Ukraine, crime, and so on. If we were to allow all separatist groups to set new boundaries, we would have 40 other states in Europe. You can imagine what would happen. Of course, there would be much more conflict. This is an issue. The next issue is legitimacy: Who's doing this? Neither Kosovo nor Serbia are presidential states. So we have two presidents, negotiating as in feudalism, when the princes met with vasals and exchanged territories. This cannot be taken seriously in the 21st century. We must strengthen democracy in the Western Balkans and try to bring the two countries into existence chapters envisioned by the EU, especially chapter 35 that requires no change in borders. So, no matter who brought this idea, for me it is nothing more than an attempt to save the era of two failed policies, both in Serbia and Kosovo.

DW: How would you explain that some politicians are sympathetic to the idea of changing the borders between Kosovo and Serbia if the parties agree with each other? 

I realize that under the current circumstances of world policy, someone may have lost patience. But I think this is absolutely the wrong way. If we really want democracy in these countries, so if we want societies, where, first of all, human rights are, if we want to resist the advancement of authorities and autisms in Europe, then we can't agree with that. On the outside, we have to send out clear signals that nationalisms that have settled in Western Ballka are the cause of misery there, where 30% of young people are unemployed. That kind of policy would legalise the so-called „ethnic cleansing”, which occurred during the wars. We have to make it clear what values we are for: democracy, human rights. Otherwise democracy will be at risk not only in the Western Balkans, but throughout Europe.

DW: How would you describe Germany's role in the Balkans these years?

I'm very often on the ground. And there I always hear Germany has to do this and that. First, Germany is just one place. Many people come to Berlin and think that Berlin “is saying” everything is fine. But it's not. We must include other countries like France, and sometimes Great Britain, Italy, Poland, and we must make clear what we want to do.
Germany has done a lot and enjoys great confidence in the Western Balkans.

But Germany cannot afford everything on its own. If there's anything to do, it's civil society support. Not in the form of projects enough to experiment, but projects from where do political demands really arise.

Europe must put more pressure on it by demanding implementation of 35 chapters. They must be put into life and not just on paper. But much support is needed in order for society to become skilled. Do not have conversations with politicians and leaders. They are legitimate because they are chosen by the people, but the question is what circumstances the people have chosen them for. These are the same circumstances we have in Hungary and Poland. If we do not want to have Hungarian and Polish circumstances in the Balkans, then we should use another energy in the Balkans.

DW: You were in the summer alone in the region, among other things, in Kosovo. How do you see the situation there?

I was in Kosovo, but like Kosovo, as other countries, I can see that people are not doing well. It's politics. But it should also be said that this policy was chosen by secret elections, perhaps with some irregularities, but the government is legitimate. I experience this in Bosnia and Herzegovina, in Serbia and elsewhere. When the opposition criticises politicians, I often ask them what the alternative is. And it cannot be that emotional themes, such as nationalism, are always raised in elections. Nationalism is Balkan cancer. We know that, and neither is Kosovo an exception.

If we take to the streets and ask people in Serbia what they want from the government, which country would achieve Kosovo's status, as opposed to work, welfare, education, residence, etc? Maybe the tenth or none. And ask Pristina the same question, what would they say? Serbia would come to last. And we can ask that question anywhere. So in the media we're always dealing with conflicts, emotions, and subjects about people don't concern anyone.

We have the fourth Berlin process, nothing happened to some projects, some memorabbles of understanding, but actually nothing. And we know very well that the Balkans have no chance, unless people open borders, remove customs and if this territory doesn't function as the European Union does.
Everyone wants to enter the EU, and for that, neither Thaci nor Vucik decides, but everyone. And anyone who thinks he's a patriot should ask first what kind of vision this is when a father is proud of a son who has emigrated abroad? This conflict has to go through the family once. The son shall ask the father, What hast thou done? why hast thou not resisted, when he hath made us to be enmity with one another? Just as the children of fathers are accountable for the events of World War II in 1968.

DW: Even in Kosovo?

Kosovo views itself as the victim of history. Kosovo is not the victim of history. Kosovo is the first victim of a society that no longer has the courage, that has given up and that recovery is always seen abroad, that someone will always come and save it. And she's not willing to look at her own problems. I was in Kosovo. Seven hours I waited at the border between Kosovo and Serbia. But so it is between Serbia and Croatia. That's what they wanted. They wanted a country, they wanted boundaries and they wanted to wait seven hours on borders to move from place to place. This is reality.

DW: Since you yourself criticise policies that do not deal with people's problems -- a problem that Kosovo citizens currently have -- is the visa regime.

I'm for visa liberalisation. I'm for equality. I want Kosovo's population to have the same right as all neighbouring countries. But this visa liberalisation is not the solution to current problems.