Adonis: Religion no longer gives answers to problems, but it is their cause

Ali Ahmad Said Esber, known internationally as Adonis, is considered one of the most influential poets of modern Arab literature. His country, Syria, is today the focus of the major global crisis, coupled with a tragedy of murder and extraordinary deportation. Through an interview for Jonathan Guyer in the New York Review of Books”, the poet in question speaks of what he describes as a deep crisis of identity in Arabs. It's a crisis that he says comes with the burden of fifteen centuries. The Arabs must pass the medieval phase of the religious state and create modern, <x2 plant society, with whose duties come with the right”. It is a battle according to him that the Arab writers do not understand. None of them are in prison, which means they're not telling the truth”, Adonis says, reminding us once again of Golgota as the metaphor of saving sick society. How much more important this message, which does not have to be intended in itself, when the Syrian poet gives a historical fact that matters: no great Arab poet has ever been a religious person. Religion associated with the State is the disease of the Arab world, an era of 15 centuries in which “ISIS is the last shout”. But “we must remain believers...”, the Syrian poet says.

At the beginning of the war in Syria you wrote a letter to President Bashar al-Assad. What would you say to him now?

Nothing's changed. Rather, problems are even greater. How could 40 states in a coalition against I SIS can't do anything in two years? Nothing will change until there is no separation of religion from the State. Unless we distinguish between what is religious and what is political, cultural, social, nothing will change and the fall of the Arab world will deteriorate. Religion is no longer the answer to problems but the cause of them. That's why she needs to break up. Every free man believes in what he wants and we have to respect it. But to be the foundation of society? No.

When was the last time you visited Syria?

In 2010.

Before the war: Can you tell us about the atmosphere back then?

I don't know. I hear news, just like you. I know Syria was destroyed, but for what? What's the project?

Look, the revolutionary must defend his country. He fights the regime, but protects the institutions. I heard that the Halep markets were completely destroyed. It was a priceless asset, how could they have destroyed it? Revolutionary doesn't rob museums. He doesn't kill a man because he's Christian, Alavi, or Druze. The Revolutionary does not deposit an entire population as in the Jazid case. Is this a revolution? Why does the West support him?

Your views on Syrian war have caused cryicism in the Arab world.

You know there are many Arabs employed by revolutionaries and they always criticize me. They say I'm not in favor of revolution. The revolution that destroys museums.

What is revolution, and who is in favor of it?

Something you can't say... a writer can never be on the killing side. It's impossible, you understand me. But some people love murder and violence. How can a poet or a painter be in the same hole as a person with a belt of explosives that goes to school and explodes himself? How? They're kids. How can you kill them? This is an unimaginable monster. My brother, if the regime is tyrannical, then fight the regime. Don't fight children and schools! Don't ruin the place! Don't kill innocent people! Fight the regime!

This is humiliating! To belong to this world is humiliating! I haven't met anything like this in history; destroying a whole country like Yemen just to put a fool in president...

You see people supporting him.

Intellectuals. How can you fight them? They criticize you for not being on their side. You must be a monster like them.

Like jihadists?

Not only because jihadists are part of the people. People who don't want it to announce their refusal publicly. Have you ever read a single statement against this? There are people who say what we're saying right now: But have you read even a single statement from an Arab state, from some high representative of political parties, or from a large group against what was done by jihadist groups? There's some kind of admission. Patience is a kind of acceptance. There was not a single protest in Arab countries against what was happening. What is the meaning of this?

They kill people and sell women to markets. They are destroying museums, the greatest achievements of humanity, and there is not a single protest, not even a declaration against it.

You wrote that I The SIS represents the end of Islam. Will there be a new beginning?

You understand, we must remain believers. Why? If mankind, mankind, comes to an end, then the world also comes to an end. As long as there are people what I'm saying right now is that I'm not alone. There are many people in Egypt and other countries who say what I'm saying right now. That is why we should remain faithful that man will arrive at a stage where he will find better solutions. When and how, this will be determined with time. But I can say that Arabs will never advance as long as they think and act in the outdated, religious-jahades context. It's not possible. He represents what is gone, it's over. I SIS is the last scream. Like a dying candle, it is extinguished with a fierce flame.

The rebirth takes time. Our society, over 15 centuries since the founding of the first Islamic state, has not been able to build a society of citizens. Citizen duty comes with rights. So far, Arab societies have been formed by individuals performing the same tasks, but have different rights: Christian does not have the same rights as Muslim B.C. Fifteen centuries. How can we settle the burden of 15 centuries in a week, or two, in a month or two? But I am confident that time will come, but outside this context.

Does this change require a commitment to the West? I read in your poem “Diry through a map of Materies”1987 for the Eiffel Tower that floats in the Mediterranean Sea and a conversation that you wrote between Abu Nawas and Victor Hugo.ura between Arabs and the West...

East and West are economic and military concepts and were created by colonialism. We can talk in geographic container that there is East and West. Colonialism and Economics exploited this.

But there is no East and West in art. You see Paul Clea's paintings of how he was inspired by Tunisia and Eastern Arabia. You can see Delacroix's paintings and how he was inspired by Morocco. When you read Rimbaud, you find that the best thing about him is that he's not Western; even though he was born in the West, he was totally against the West. When you read Abu Nawas, or Abu Al-Maharri, you can't say if they're East or Western. Creators are from a world, no matter where they come from or where they go. They live together beyond geography, beyond language and nationalism, and they belong to mankind's creative world. In that sense there is neither East nor West. Whitman to me is like Abu Tammam. He's part of me and I'm part of him.

But the West has developed social institutions that you think are missing the Arab world.

The problems Europe experienced were overcome by the establishment of new societies, completely separate from the church and religious faith. In the Middle Ages, electronic trials were like jihadists today. They killed people and burned them. The West successfully separated the church and established modern society. We're still in these stages. And if the West was successful in this division then there is no reason to stop this even of the Arabs. We are fighting this very battle. We will win it regardless of all, despite Western politicians as well, because Western politicians despise Arabs and Arab regimes. They despise them. The West uses these regimes as tools to execute its plans.

But how can an effective division between religion and government be achieved?

Starting again. A battle is necessary. The battle is inevitable. You can't do things by sitting down without doing anything. You have to face, stay and fight. Writing and being imprisoned. I wonder why Arab prisons are not full of writers. I ask because that means that Arab writers are not doing their duty. They are not criticizing, not talking about deep issues, the real issues of life. They're not talking about real crises. So my kryticism from here goes to writers not to the state. Being out of prison, they prove so that they are not telling the truth. As long as their books are stopped... we can say yes, culture has a role.

But can poetry address the terrible, barbarian violence that is flooding Syria? We think about Adorno's statement of poetry after Auschwitz.

That's talking. Auschwitz was a catastrophic disaster, but mankind has experienced many. Instead, I believe that writing starts with asking questions and discovering the source of evil, wherever they come from. Because, in the words of Adorno, he forbids us from asking questions and forces us to accept it. This is wrong. I don't agree with him. Now you start writing, after Auschwitz.

What about poetry writing during the Syrian civil war?

You can't compare a bomb to a poem. You shouldn't take this comparison off. Any stray bullet can change a regime, any disgusting bullet can kill a great man, like Kennedy, for example. You can't make parallels like that because it's on the wrong ground. Poetry is like creating air, perfume, like breathing. It cannot be measured by materialistic standards. That is why poetry despises war and is never connected with it. But when the war is over, it is possible to meditate on the dead, ruins, destruction, ruins. Then someone can write something, but it's still an element of war.

We know I SIS has written poetry, Osama bin Laden as well.

She's not a poem. It should not be considered poetry, definitely not. Because poetry is a social phenomenon. When culture is part of everyday life, everyone is a poet and everyone is a novelist. Now there are thousands of novelists. But if you can find out who's good at reading, then you're right. In America... There are thousands of novels; you'll find five or six good ones, the rest are garbage. The same applies to Arabs. All Arabs are poets, but 95% of them are worthless.

You've recently written about immigration as an important part of Arab culture. Now we face a migraine crisis in the Middle East and Europe. Can you talk about it?

I see immigration caused by two things: because there is no work, or there is no freedom without work or freedom. Please see that the citizen, or man, looks for a place to work and be free. And Arab countries are poor. For 200 years we have been unable to establish a good university or a research institution. And we have a great spring. We use them in useless weapons. We buy weapons, planes, and even pilots to fly planes and fight for us, as Saudis are doing in Yemen.

The world is mooring. We're primitive. We're still in the Middle Ages and you're asking modern questions. Don't be fooled by foreign cars or American University in Cairo. We can't produce cars. We can't even produce a cup of coffee. So how are we? Western politicians are making fun of us. You're intellectuals. You need to know the facts.

In your final writing, you've raised questions about Arab identity. Like “Who are we?” ( Al-Hayat, December 10, 2015.

It's hard not only for Arabs. It's hard for the human being, if we talk about it in general. For the religion hath answered, The Christian is Christian; the Jew is Jewish; the Muslim is Muslim. Each is under observation of the other “”, under monitoring. If he believes in what I believe, then I know him; and if he doesn't believe, then I don't know him. That's why the concept of another in monotheistic religions is unlimited.

So for a secular person, the concept of identity is complex. There are suggestions on this issue among Arab Sufists.

You know Rimbaud said: You're all alone. I'm next.(I is another). The Arab Sufi, a thousand years before him, said, Next I am. You know, in Islam, a Muslim inherits his identity, just as he inherited his father's house, fields, or money. The identity is imposed on him or his priority. The Sufiu said, "No, identity is an ongoing creation."

Man shapes identity with his work and ideology. And if identity is creation, then “I” does not exist individually; “I “I” exists with the other and the other is her five. For me to be myself, I must go through another. Similarly, the identity of Sufism is endlessly open.

As long as a person is alive, his identity is constantly altered. If he was a poet, his identity would not end even if he died, because his texts are renewed and revised constantly and read in different ways, so his identity is open.

In that sense too, poetry is against religion. It can't be with religion. I mean you won't find a poet in Arab history who was religious. It is impossible to say that this is a great poet and that he is religious. If he is a man of faith, he will be like a Sufi, who calls himself a believer and believes in a God who is completely different from the official Islamic God of principles, law and institution. So the real power of the human being does not lie in giving an answer; real power lies in questioning.

Seventy years ago you chose the name Adonis.

No, I created a name to get out of religion.

But now the name has become

A crime!

Why?

It has been criticised because it is not an Arab or Muslim name. Unfortunately, religious culture has reduced all culture. He lives on the surface.

So where is the future of Arab culture?

I told you before, as long as there is love and death, art will live. Don't worry! Nietzsche, the director of modern thought, was not published in his time. Nobody knew him. This is the fate of art, forever. Many are published and sold millions, but their books have their place in waste.

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/04/16/Syria-now-writing-starts-intervi...

Translation by: Resublica