Rohde: With an ideal result in dialogue, non-recognists will recognise Kosovo

Germany's ambassador to Kosovo, Jorn Rohde, says it is “sure” that Kosovo will recognise the non-recognitional states of the European Union if there are results in normalising its relations with Serbia.

In an interview given Radio Free Europe, he encourages Kosovo and Serbian leaders Albin Kurti and Aleksandar Vuciq to use the March 18th meeting in Ohrid to reach agreement on implementing the EU plan for normalising relations.

In the absence of constructiveity by the parties, Rohde cites the possibility of sanctions by the EU.

He, too, says Kosovo must fulfil its nearly 10-year obligation to establish the Association of Serb majority municipalities.

Radio Free Europe: This weekend, Kosovo and Serbian leaders are expected to meet in northern Macedonia to discuss the annex of implementing an agreement known as the EU proposal. You have said the two countries shouldn't be “following bus” for this upcoming meeting. Why?

Jorn Road: Because time is not on the side of Kosovo and Serbia. We must overcome this permanent confrontation with crisis.

All 27 EU and United States countries have invested heavily. Last week, you know that Italy's prime minister, France's president and German Chancellor have published a letter to the two leaders [Kosovo Prime Minister and Serbia's president], in which they have underlined the importance of this agreement.

I am happy that on February 27th, [Serbia's president, Aleksandar] Vuciq and [Kosovo Prime Minister Albin] Kurti has agreed in principle to this European proposal, which has been initiated by France and Germany.

Radio Free Europe: However, we have heard different expectations from the meeting in Ohrid by the leaders of Kosovo and Serbia. There has been more scepticism by the Serbian side. How do you comment?

Jorn Rohde: We, too, must overcome this context: I know what I don't want. I think this is the dynamic we try to install on the parties...

We have to agree on what we can do together. That's a good thing. You have a base. And now we have the application annex.

We have made clear what we expect from Kosovo, just as the European envoy [Kosovo-Serbia dialogue, Miroslav] Lajcak, who works hard, has our full support and made it clear yesterday [March 14th] that without [the deepening] the Association of Serb majority municipalities [in Kosovo] there is no agreement.

On the other hand, Serbia should also agree that Kosovo is a neighbour and has a European future. And Kosovo has much to gain.

Radio Free Europe: Experiences from the past have taught us that many agreements reached in Brussels have not been implemented. There have been many subsequent agreements and guides to implement them. Why do you think the EU plan will be different?

Jorn Road: Because I think the glass is half full now. I mentioned earlier some leaders [supporting], there is full synchronization between the EU and the US...

We have made it clear that time is essential. We have a war in Europe. We can't tolerate this constant confrontation with crisis, about car plates, barricades, elections...

So we need an agreement in 18 [mars]. This is the agreement, which is on the table and needs to be implemented. I fully agree with you that many agreements in the past have not been implemented. That's why we're so eager to work this time. That's why you have the highest political level after this deal.

Radio Free Europe: Can parties choose what to apply and what not to that proposal?

Jorn Road: Of course, it ultimately depends on interested parties, but the basis is what has been agreed upon on 27 [shortly]. And now comes the most detailed implementation.

Of course, there are sequences, there are still shades that can be discussed, but the application annex, provided by Lajcak, is the basis of the agreement.

Again, I underline that it is important for Kosovo to establish the Association of Serb majority municipalities, which is an obligation of nearly 10 years.

Radio Free Europe: You mentioned the Association of Serb-run municipalities, which is one of the most controversial topics on this proposal. Both sides have strong attitudes in this regard. How do you see the solution to that?

Jorn Road: We've made it clear to everyone and our friends here, in Kosovo, the red line. Of course, there is no rough possibility of having a second Republic.

Whatever solution should be in line with the Constitution of Kosovo and should be the basis of the 2013 and 2015 agreements that have been ratified by Kosovo.

Another thing we see is that we already have parallel structures and the situation has not become better, but worse. Kosovo Serbs have left the institutions (of Kosovo), so we have a bad situation.

By establishing the association, we hope to integrate Kosovo Serbs within the state. This is a good development, I see it from this perspective.

Kosovo has much to gain”

Radio Free Europe: You mentioned that there could be a sequence. Do you think there is room for renegotiation, for example, for association?

Jorn Road: I can't speak on behalf of actors, but I said that the details should definitely be discussed. The various details are all based on what has been developed by (Miroslav) Lajcak.

And, as I have said, Kosovo has much to gain: De facto recognition, territorial integrity, recognition of all state documents and symbols and overcoming the past based on European values. This is a big step forward, not the end, but I think it puts both sides on the European road. And, I repeat, to overcome continued crisis management.

Radio Free Europe: However, one of the provisions of the European proposal says Serbia will not oppose Kosovo's membership in any international organisation. But, Serbian President Aleksandar Vuciq has said he would never accept Kosovo's membership in the United Nations.

Jorn Road: I do not comment on what is not possible, but I want to comment on what is possible. And when Serbia and other actors accept a paragraph that will not block membership (of Kosovo) in international organisations... I am unaware that Serbia has vetoes at the United Nations.

Radio Free Europe: What about other international organizations?

Jorn Road: We can't talk about them, but I think if there's a dynamic that the two states agree on, I don't believe the third parties would pollute this. It has been discussed earlier that some countries do not recognise (Kosovo) within the European Union.

I have lots of hope and we're constantly in touch with them. I have high hopes that a positive outcome on March 18th will unlock even non-recognitions.

There is no guarantee, but I do not see any reason for non-recognition when the two states (Serbia and Kosovo) themselves have de facto recognition.

Radio Free Europe: Has there been internal discussions, or has there been any tangible change in the positions of non-recognition countries (of Kosovo) if the agreement is implemented?

Jorn Road: You would have to talk to these countries, but I have a hundred percent hope from my own national experience. I was raised in a divided Germany, and as West Germany, we did not know East Germany.

But we've just reached the basic agreement between these two countries, all states that we've forbidden from knowing East Germany, then met East Germany. This has not changed our inner relationship. All non-recognition states have said that if there is a positive dynamic for normalisation of relations (Kosovo-Serbia), we will rethink our position.

So, for me, it's kind of “slam-dnk” (ther that describes an easy victory). If you have an ideal result, there will be unaware states that will recognise Kosovo, I am very sure. So it is very important that we cross the line and avoid miss the bus, as I have said before.

Radio Free Europe: Can we specifically talk about Germany? Has Germany promised Kosovo membership assistance in international organisations?

Jorn Road: Look, we are among the closest allies of Kosovo. We invest too much on human level, we have close relationships. You know, almost half a million German Kosovars live in Germany. I mean, you know, there's an ongoing exchange. We're the biggest foreign investor, the biggest source of remittances, partner in business... Of course we talk to our partners, and that's why I have hope.

However, I cannot provide guarantees, each country decides for itself. First, though, it is difficult to answer hypothetical questions.

First, we have to cross the line in 18 [mares, in Ohrid] and, on both sides, willingness to give more of ourselves is required: For Kosovo regarding the Association of Serb-run municipalities; for Serbia, to accept that Kosovo is there and that there is a European perspective.

Radio Free Europe: We talked about benefits for both countries. What could be the possible consequences for both countries if they are not constructive at these meetings?

Jorn Road: Again, [it's] hypothetical questions. But, of course, there are consequences. I don't see that readiness, as I say, to give more of myself. I mean, over the past few months, leaders in Europe have invested a lot. There have been meetings... and you have to remember the geopolitical situation, we have a war in Ukraine.

There are many challenges and for that reason the Western Balkans are in Europe, but we really have to end this ongoing crisis management. There will be consequences, there will be less focus... If you can't solve the conflict, it might be managed... but, I mean, if the main actors don't give more of themselves, then why should they keep doing this to our leaders?

We have to invest our resources in... there's a war again and now we've seen that there's a solution on the table and I think they expect both sides to accept it and work diligently on it.

Promising for Additional Investment

Radio Free Europe: If I can insist on this topic... in an earlier interview with REL, Prime Minister (Albin) Kurti said it is discussed possible consequences if the parties are not constructive in the dialogue. Is there anything specific that has been told Serbia or Kosovo as the incentive for constructiveity in the dialogue?

Jorn Road: Look, I mean, there's a promise of additional support and investment. And if there is failure, then there is no additional support. And, you know, that's just a consequence.

Will membership in international organisations be easier? No, it won't. It's going to get harder because how you can wait... I mean, the road to Europe is between this proposal and we want both countries to be part of Europe. The entire Western Balkans belong in the EU. Most of the countries, some of them, are already in NATO.

Kosovo wants to become part of NATO. To achieve this, you must convince all NATO member states that you are a constructive partner.

“Without mutual recognition, I don't see any country in the EU”
Radio Free Europe: The proposal, as published, does not mention recognition “de jure” from Serbia. Do you think normalization without mutual recognition is possible?

Jorn Road: All have made it clear that this is an intermediate but very important step because it begins a dynamic that leads to complete normalisation.

A mutual recognition is the final phase for us, because without mutual recognition, I do not see any country in the EU, because we do not accept countries that do not recognise each other. But, for now, this is the best deal you can get and there are many benefits, which I mentioned and the end of [attempts] for Serbia to block Kosovo from membership in international organisations.