Is Russia committing genocide in Ukraine?

Is Russia committing genocide in Ukraine? David Simon, a professor of political science and director of the Women's Genocide Programme, told Radio Europe of its free opinion on the matter. Why is this important, and why is Russia's power at the UN Security Council problematic?

Radio Free EuropeWhat's going on in Ukraine? There's been a debate about whether this is genocide or not what happened in Butcha and other Ukrainian towns?

David Simon: I think there's a lot of interest in this question, not only because President (Volodomyr) Zelensky has raised the genocide issue in his comments. The images that came out of Butch are terrible. They identify the conscience, as stated by a phrase dating back to the Nurenberg era of trials. The question of whether or not genocide in Ukraine is occurring perhaps at the order of Russian troops, or the Russian operation as a whole, is more complicated than atrocities in a certain country. Determining genocide depends on the ability to detect or meet purpose.

The phrase within the Convention on Genocide, which defines what genocide is under international law, views it as a number of actions that were committed for the purpose of destruction, in whole or in part, of a group on racial, ethnic, religious or national grounds. This is the key part that makes something genocide. Attempts to destroy a group, just because it's a group, killing a man, only because he's a member of a group, or whether the chief intends to destroy or at least partially eliminate that group.

Radio Free Europe: So that means that by now you can't say what's going on, because you have no indication that a group is being targeted, or at least you haven't yet confirmed about something like that?

David Simon: It's complicated. I'm not sure we don't have information... but the case is more complicated than the definition of cruelty and the statement could be genocide. It has to do with the connection of what happened -- the violence, the murder of civilians, the massacres of civilians on the street -- with the intentions Russia, the Kremlin, or (Russian president Vladimir) Putin, or even military commanders. In the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda where there have been international tributaries, international courts, who have investigated the genocide charge of sometimes the first genocide sentences in an international court, in the late 1990s, have been to local leaders who have ordered their soldiers to commit acts that have come under the definition of genocide.

So we don't need a Putin statement. But I think in this case we can end up finding something like this. It is in statements concerning Ukrainian rights to exist. It's complicated because what Putin says I'm talking about and I'm not addressing any particular sentence is that Ukraine has no right to exist. That Ukraine is an international accident, so he says Ukraine has no right to exist. At one point, this is different from, say, claims that Ukrainians have no right to exist. I think Putin would be among the first to say that yes, this people has a right to exist. They just have to call themselves Russian. This raises interesting questions without having any precedent in international law if this is called genocide.

David Simon: Two other things come out of these discussions. One is about a point that is not in the Genocide Convention but has been discussed in 1940 in the United Nations, when the establishment of the Convention about cultural genocide was discussed, which is the denial of culture and the denial of the right of people to have a kind of culture or identity. Although this may be argued, as such there is no basis for international law.

David Simon: The other is that at least some figures associated with the Kremlin may have written in Russian state media, amid lines, that the Ukrainian leadership should be liquidated. Of course, they refer to leadership as neo-Nazi, in one way or another. Also, they do not differentiate between current neo-Nazis, or membership in a neo-Nazi organisation and Ukrainians as a whole. So, if you're confusing that political membership with a national identity, and then you're saying that the leadership of that ID group should be liquidated or exterminated, you're calling for the elimination of parts of a group as such, and thus you can get involved in the Genocide Convention as genocide.

Radio Free Europe: What are the consequences of calling a genocide cruelty compared with war crime?

David Simon: It's more in people's imagination, in the global imagination that genocide is at the top of the crime hierarchy. Actually, it's not. There are no hierarchy written in laws somewhere. As for the trials, one can be tried for war crimes and one can be tried for genocide.

David Simon: But beyond accountability is the issue of intervention or oppression of such acts, preventing further acts of genocide or war crimes. The Genocide Convention says that if someone thinks genocide is taking place, he should take this matter to the United Nations and then decide how to proceed. Since Russia has vetoed the Security Council, it will go slowly. The UN is working, but it cannot immediately create peacekeeping forces, peacekeeping missions or authorise international coalitions for military intervention. And that applies only to genocide.

David Simon: There is a doctrine that at least in theory has been signed by the member states of the United Nations called Protection responsibility. Doctrine says that when certain crimes prove to be happening, and the government, which has authority in areas where crimes are being committed, cannot protect the targets of these actions, then the international community has the responsibility to protect civilians. This thing was implemented in Libya in 2011, when [Mummar] Gaddafi has targeted opponents in Benghazi and other countries. The UN Security Council has met and said that Gaddafi is not interested in protecting his civilians. In fact, he targeted them. Therefore, resolutions have been adopted that say, through NATO, we can take measures to protect the civilian population. In that case, however, he was a dictator against his people.

David Simon: Here we are seeing a neighbouring state (Russia) targeting a neighbouring country, and the state government targeted (of Ukraine) seeking help to protect its citizens from attacks by the neighbouring state.

This has no precedent in the short-term history of defense responsibility or at least no precedent that has been implemented. This is the area in which defensive situations are not only the situations of the confirmed or even alleged genocide, but those of crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing and war crimes. For these three other categories of major human rights violations, it is more quickly concluded that <x0... This is a crime against humanity because we don't need purpose. You don't need data on what the head of the crime thought. You should see an example of crimes against humanity that have continued attacks on civilians. Or in the case of war crimes, there are violations of the rules governing the conduct of armed groups during the war period.

Radio Free Europe: If the situation in Ukraine is declared genocide, are states obliged to act against Russia?

David Simon: The only commitment under the Convention is for the issue to go to the UN. This process becomes an uncertain one. There is nothing convincing, there is no institutional punishment if nothing is done. Maybe there is. However, in international politics and law, we lack the mechanism to impose current action. Now, the United States has said that genocide is occurring or has occurred on eight occasions. I'm not sure if they authorized military responses in any of them.

David Simon: Peacekeeping forces have not been completely successful throughout history. There are many bad precedents. Look at Bosnia. The United Nations has been committed during the conflict in Bosnia to provide refuge for civilians who have been attacked by Bosnian Serb militia. I think it's been learned to support the troops who are offering shelter. You can't just send them out and pray for the best. This is one of those things the UN has to take into account. But that too is challenging, as Russia is involved in decision-making.