James Rubin: It is hard to imagine normalisation between Kosovo and Serbia without recognition that Russia is trying to use their problems

The special envoy and co-ordinator of the Center for Global Awareness of the State Department James Rubin told the Voice of America that it is hard to imagine normalising relations between Kosovo and Serbia without recognition. The senior American official, who played an important role during the Kosovo war, says there are currently concerns about how the Kosovo government is playing its role in diplomatic terms, failing to meet the requirement for creating association. In an interview with colleague Garentina Kraja, Mr. Rubin also speaks of concerns about the campaign of disinformation spread by Russia and China in the Western Balkans.

Voice of America: Mr. Rubin, the US State Department recently announced a joint initiative with the European Union to fight Russian and Chinese dezination and propaganda in the Western Balkans. What challenge are you facing?

James Rubin: Dezinformation and manipulation of information are one of the greatest threats of our era, and the West has taken time to understand the extent of the information war Russia and China have waged against us. So we have to work harder to protect ourselves from this threat. The Western Balkans initiative aims to help Balkan states, those that want to join the EU, working to meet EU standards, to draft procedures, policies, plans, build capacities, so we are designing what we call frames to fight foreign information. We have signed memorandums of co-operation with several Balkan states to help them meet this challenge.

Russia uses dezinformation worldwide, but especially in the Western Balkans. They are operating through (Russian news agency) Sputnik Serbiaʹ, through RT Serbia) that unfortunately still broadcast. And because many countries speak the same language in the Western Balkans, these types of information are used, reused and manipulated.

We are trying to help countries in the region protect themselves against them, given that they all want to join the EU must meet EU standards, and one of them is preventing information manipulation in their countries. We're trying to help them get ready for this, and in the process, we hope they will improve co-operation with each other.

Voice of America: Regional experts say the Western Balkans is an unfinished project and that Russia is exploiting tensions that reign to strengthen. Is the region a battlefield where Russia and the West are fighting for people's minds and hearts?

James Rubin: I don't think this is about fighting. Western values, values of the United States, I believe, dominate Europe and the states that want to be part of Europe. Unfortunately, Russia continues to try to use problems between Kosovo and Serbia by threatening to veto Kosovo's membership in the United Nations through false claims that Kosovo could supposedly become a terrorist state. Russia uses all sorts of other disinformive forms to deny Kosovo membership in Interpol, U n NESTO and other steps.

Russia tries to stir up divisions as the United States, together with our friends and allies, is trying to overcome the terrible day of the past as the Russians make efforts to keep them alive.

Voice of America: Kosovo just marked the 25th anniversary of the liberation and end of the war. You played a crucial role in ending that conflict. Can you share your thoughts with us? Was NATO intervention the right decision?

James Rubin: I think there is no doubt that NATO made a powerful decision to prevent possible genocide against the people of Kosovo. The operation we took was successful. Our intentions are fulfilled. Serbian forces fled Kosovo, Kosovo became a democratic, independent democratic state, a friend state of the United States, a close partner of the United States, and all was achieved at the risk of the minimum American lives. President Biden was a clear supporter of the Kosovo war and the reason we took it. I am very proud of the role I have played in supporting Mrs. Madeleine Albright and President Bill Clinton, to help free the people of Kosovo from mass murder.

But I want to make it clear that I'm talking to you today as President Biden's administration official and what I did, or what I didn't do 25 years ago, doesn't change what I say as President Biden's administration official. My comments represent the policy of President Beden's administration. I would ask for the consensus we give to the president of Serbia, who has played a big role in Milosevic's government, but we don't raise that issue to him. We don't mention it when we meet him. But unfortunately there are people in Serbia, who, every time I speak on behalf of President Biden's administration, tie him to 25 years ago. I seek the same understanding as we give to the president of Serbia in this regard.

Voice of America: Today, relations between the United States and Kosovo have gone through periods of tension this year, and according to observers, they are at the lowest point. How do you see the actual situation?

James Rubin: Clearly, there are concerns about the way the current government acted diplomaticly by failing to meet (the requirement) for the creation of association. But, frankly, we're friends, we're good friends. This was witnessed when I was in Kosovo, when state secretaries visited Kosovo, when President Clinton went there... the people of Kosovo and the people of the United States cannot be closer and I don't think there is a dilemma about this issue. But, yes, diplomatically, relations are not so good actually, but it happens because of the Kosovo- Serbia continues to be a burden to residents of the region.

Voice of America: Has the time come for a new Western strategy for a new beginning in the Kosovo dialogue Serbia, now that new special envoys have not yet been appointed?

James Rubin: My close friend Jim O'Brien is Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs and I promised him I would not interfere with his work. It is up to him to decide, to determine American politics in the Balkans. The answer to this question will leave him, but I want to add that in the information field, where I play my role and where Jim O'Brien and I work together, we want to see an information field in the Western Balkans free of Russian dezination, free of Chinese information manipulation, and for that the government of Serbia has to make changes.

Voice of America: What is the final goal of the dialogue process, the normalisation process? In Kosovo, Ambassador Havenier says the final goal should be mutual recognition. In Serbia, Ambassador Hill says recognition is not a condition of the EU as part of this process. What is the ultimate goal?

James Rubin: I would not like to get between the two ambassadors, but I can say that the American stance is that the long-term goal of normalisation means recognition. It is hard to imagine the normalisation of relations between Kosovo and Serbia without recognition and the fact that some other states that are part of the EU do not recognise Kosovo, have nothing to do with the American stance. Kosovo and Serbia have problems. Problems have to be solved. They must normalise relations. That's the understanding of EU standards. As Americans we don't tell the European Union what to do. That's why the American ambassadors' views of that are not important to the EU. Of importance is what our position is and our position is to propose that normalisation include mutual recognition of the two countries.

Voice of America: At the time that the world is involved in numerous riots, when the world order created after World War II is challenged and when democracies are tested on a daily basis, what is the future of states like Kosovo?

James Rubin: There is no confusion in Kosovo. I've been there. I don't see Russia and China extending influence in Kosovo. The people of Kosovo have made great progress. I was there during his days and darkest chapters. I have seen its development from a war zone of destroyed cities in a country that now looks like any other modern European city. I don't care what values the people of Kosovo will define, for the democratic values of America, or for authoritarian states that want to change the international system. No competition. The people of Kosovo are pro-American.

Voice of America: And in the end, do you have anything else to add?

James Rubin: No, but I would add that it is often difficult to appreciate the great progress that has been marked when diplomacy is blocked. I call on the people of Kosovo to understand how far it has progressed in these 25 years from a period when people's lives were at risk in a period of basic freedoms, with functioning democracies, economies that are marking improvement and real opportunity to join the EU that depends on them, on their own government, that can now choose their own destiny. As an American official, we'll make sure they're able to decide for themselves. But they have to make the choice and we hope they do.